Southern Delight fish food

[RD.]

Pike have been known to eat muskrats too, does that mean we should add rat hair as a source of protein to a fish food?    

I can probably save a whole lot of typing by just posting a link to this past discussion, which included my personal view of this product line.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?555050-What-do-you-guys-feed-your-cichlids


As far as ash content, by law, it is not required to be listed on fish food labels.

 

[Anthony J.]

Well said Neil, it's nice to see that I'm not the only one who sees the many faults in this line. I feel a little disappointed when I see some pretty knowledgeable people endorsing this food. Especially when I know they have participated in these discussions before. And have seen the information presented in a logical and factual manner. The way to research the quality of a fish food has been paved, the information of what constitutes a quality food has been spelled out, time and time again.

For me, I have nothing to gain, no vested intrest. I spend between $200-400 on fish food a year. It is in my best interest to do my best to research, and find the best food for my many fish. I am not sponsored to endorse anything. All I have done is read, and observed my fish. I am not promoting any products, simply saying this product, for now, is just another second rate product and needs some serious modifications before myself, or many others will take it serious.

 

[Chiisai]

On a side note... some info for everyone from the FDA(Who control labeling of ingredients.)
BTW Most of these foods contain Copper Proteinate so make sure no shrimp in the tank.

§ 453. Definitions.
(e) The term ''poultry'' means any domesticated bird, whether live or dead.(yes a duck found dead on the road would meet criteria)
(f) The term ''poultry product'' means any poultry carcass, or part thereof; or any product which is made wholly or in part from any poultry carcass or part thereof, excepting products which contain poultry ingredients only in a relatively small proportion or historically have not been considered by consumers as products of the poultry food industry, and which are exempted by the Secretary from definition as a poultry product under such conditions as the Secretary may prescribe to assure that the poultry ingredients in such products are not adulterated and that such products are not represented as poultry products.

The term “lean” may be used to describe an individual food as packaged when it contains less than 10 grams of fat, 4.5 grams or less of saturated fat, and less than 95 milligrams of cholesterol per reference amount and per 100 grams. For a main dish or meal to qualify as “lean,” it must meet
these specified levels for fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol per 100 grams and per labeled serving.
(Less then 10 grams of fat max in a fish food? Thats not tough)

 

[Chiisai]

Pike have been known to eat muskrats too, does that mean we should add rat hair as a source of protein to a fish food?    

Thats not what I was implying. If you read the whole comment I said "Pike have been known to eat ducks... just thought I would throw that out there. Although I suspect that is not a common occurance"

To Anthony, I agree about not being terribly impressed. You recommended NLS so I will look into it as well.

 

[Betty]

I have been feeding NLS for years and have no complaints.  I've tried plenty of other food samples and have yet to find one that I like as much as NLS. I did pick up a sample of the Southern Delight food at the swap and I'm going to give it a try soon.

 

[Anthony J.]

My recommendation for nls in person, is out of the scope of this discussion. I do however strongly disagree with you on hikari, or this southern stuff to be even close to on par with nls.

When it all boils down though, the info has been presented, the methods in which to research and judge or gauge the quality of food is available. One only needs to hit the books, and sponge up this information. After the research,  and the trial and error is all said and done. The top overall food is easily decided.

That's not to say, some manufacturers don't kick out something of excellent quality from time to time. For instance, hikari discus bio gold. I am not a fan of hikari, at all, but anyone who has done the research and realized that which makes a quality food. Can flip the package over, and make a very good educated analysis as to what is to be expected. And that discus food, is freaking great.

Then, to those who have tried several foods, and seen the good and the bad, are able to tell by looking at The pellet, its density, its absorption rate, and how it affects the fish it is being fed to.

As far as me being rude, or sharp tongued or however it is to be said. I am very straight forward, there's no need for me to beat around the bush, or sugar coat. If something is bs, I will call it as such. If someone takes offense to that,  it further reiterates my point, that it is bs. Because, you could yell in my face that what I feed my fish is garbage, and you will get no negative response. I don't need to defend what I feed, it defends itself.

 

[Anthony J.]

I have been feeding NLS for years and have no complaints.  I've tried plenty of other food samples and have yet to find one that I like as much as NLS. I did pick up a sample of the Southern Delight food at the swap and I'm going to give it a try soon.

You know Betty, you have to be my favorite fishboxer. And, that's not because of what you feed. Always straight to the point "here is my opinion" and that's it. I Always smile when I see you have posted. Kinda of random in the middle of this conversation, but, just thought I would share. Let us know if you see any positive or negative impact with this please.

 

[Madness]

NLS huh? Are all of you aware that NLS uses a banned pesticide as an ingredient? It is called Ethoxquin, this chemical is banned in half the country.

As for the info you request, it is being looked into.

 

[Anthony J.]

A statement like that requires proof or documentation, care to back it up

 

[Anthony J.]

You will be hard pressed to find such documentation, as it simply doesn't exist. But, here, let me provide a little information,  hopefully, this'll make things more clear.

http://nlsfishfood.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=63&limit=1&limitstart=5

 

[Anthony J.]

You see, this is the difference. An accusation of a "banned" substance, with no no info backing the legitimacy of the accusation, or of the substance having any real negatives. Hear say, or simply stating that something is, does not make it so. But, I guess the heavy weight champs will always have a contender. I have been trying to make the simple case this whole time, we already know what constitutes a good food. How can anyone look at that ingredient list, and even consider it as anything more then the run of the mill, typical cheapo fish food. And more still, with questionable labeling.

 

[dwarfpike]

http://www.pesticideinfo.org/List_AquireAll.jsp?Rec_Id=PC35089&Taxa_Group=Fish

If I am deciphering it correctly, 14-28ppm caused deaths in Rainbow Trout fry at a sustained dousage in the water supply.

Nothing about chemical bonding in food though, concentrations, dissolvability, ect.

 

[cichlid-gal]

Additional information on fish food ingredients can be found at this link.  I don't know the person who produced this nor do I know that it is entirely correct but there is a lot of information in this link that might lead to further research of ingredients or concerns about ingredients if you are so inclined.

Thank you Anthony for the link on Ethoxquin that clears up many misconceptions and myths about  that additive.

Here's the link for ingredients:
http://www.oscarfish.com/fish-food-ingredients.html

Having raised dogs for years I spent many of those years searching for the best "foods" for my dogs.  There was always something new and exciting coming out on the market.  Now you can find refrigerated dog food in the grocery stores...who would have thought?

Personally, doing the research before you chose will give you the best bang for your buck.  Maybe the distributors can get some more detailed ingredient information for all of us on this new fish food so that we can make a knowledgeable decision regarding it.

In the end I don't think there is a perfect food...all of them contain ingredients that we would prefer they don't. It's about making an educated decision with the best information that you have.

 

[RD.]

Betty, I just realized that you and I are the same age.  I guess we go back a few yrs in more ways than one.  lol

In the end I don't think there is a perfect food...all of them contain ingredients that we would prefer they don't. It's about making an educated decision with the best information that you have

Well put, Donna.


As far as the link to the oscar website, unfortunately the information found on that website is nothing more than the opinion of a person who is neither trained in this field, or spent any time working in this industry.  Some good info, mixed in with some very misleading, and in a number of cases just downright false information.  Major fail in IMHO, just as it was when kmuda posted about this subject on MFK.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?510234-What-are-you-feeding-YOUR-fish-!


If you want to learn about ethoxyquin, and pet food, read that link.

 

[Anthony J.]

Donna, your last statement is a very true one, in a perfect world, we could be shipped an assort of natural fresh foods from any particular fishes native habitat on a weekly basis,  that would make me happy, but I would go broke.

Dwarfpike, good link. I'm going to look into that a little more and see if there were any other contributing factors, and also see if it was tried on more then one batch. It is hard to be conclusive, if a test is only carried out a single time, and with a single group of fish.

The link I provided has plenty of information on toxicity levels, as well as information about the FDA approval.  Along with this info, it provides other information regarding all fish food, and the fact that they all contain this preservative and why. So, if an argument is to be made against nls with the regards to this preservative,  so too must it be made against southern,  as it, by law, must also contain this preservative in order to have the raw materials shipped here so it can be made, or whatever process any particular company my follow.

But, trying to shy a discussion away from it's focal point, by pointing fingers at another product is a tactic used by someone desperate to make a sound argument with little information to back it up. A good recent example of this can be found in current political on goings.

 

[dwarfpike]

I don't have a horse in this race btw, I don't feed either atm.

I wasn't saying that it was bad by the way. We all know of chemicals that aren't toxic when bonded to another compound, or are more toxic in certain situations (ammonia being more toxic at higher pH for instance). I don't know enough about how it's added to the food to speak intelligently about it. All we know from that link is that the chemical is toxic to a sensitive species fish fry when exposed to it over an extended amount of time in a water soluble form. If in the food it's not in a water soluble form, then the point is moot.

I do try to read a lot about the subject of food, though I rarely post on it due to just the lack of knowledge.

Heck, I'm still trying to figure out why most 'veggie' pellets/flakes have such high min. protein percentages.

 

[Anthony J.]

Its all good, you provided a link, any input to any discussion is valuable imo.

 

[dwarfpike]

Just waiting for RD to rip my post apart!!! :drunk: 

 

[Anthony J.]

He knows his stuff, I can't find anyone out there that knows fish nutrition better. I have been saying for a few years now, if someone can convince RD then I am convinced. But have done a healthy amount of research myself.

 

[RD.]

FYI - I'm not looking to rip anyones post apart, I'm just trying to keep things real. 


"But, trying to shy a discussion away from it's focal point, by pointing fingers at another product is a tactic used by someone desperate to make a sound argument with little information to back it up. A good recent example of this can be found in current political on goings."


My thoughts exactly, especially when those comments come from not just someone with a personal (sponsor) interest in the product, but someone who is also a moderator on this forum.


Anthony, just so you know, there is no law that states that all fish meal must be preserved with ethoxyquin, or any other type of preservative. Obviously all fish meal, krill meal, squid meal, shrimp meal, etc muct be preserved with something or they will soon go rancid, but only those products entering US waters by boat must be preserved with antioxidents such as ethoxyquin.  If it enters by transport truck, train, etc, not an issue. 

Up until fairly recently finding fish meal that was preserved with substances other than ethoxyquin was impossible. Today, while still not always easy to find at least some of these raw ingredients, including fish meal, can be sourced without ethoxyquin.  Fish meals that incorporate natural preservatives such as tocopherols (vitamin E), citric acid (vitamin C), and rosemary extract can now be found in North America.  But that's just fish meal, a lot of other marine based proteins would be ruled out, at least for the time being.  Anything & everything that contains any type of fat, is preserved with something.  Even micro-algae such as  Haematococcus pluvialis (astaxanthin) is oftened preserved with ethoxyquin.  Of course for those suppliers stating that their raw ingredients are 100% ethoxyquin free, we really only have their word to go on, or each batch of each ingredient purchased would have to be tested.  Most feed manufacturers are not going to go to that expense, it simply becomes too time consuming, and costs too much $$$.  There is a breaking point on how much money the average consumer will pay for fish food, no matter how healthy it may be. 

Honestly, if one is adamant about avoiding any amount of artificial preservative in their fishes diet, they should probably consider feeding homemade food made from organic ingredients.  Even then, who knows ....