Bad morning

[DMD123]

So I began my morning with the loss of my Argentea. She had been acting weird for the last two days and had stopped eating. I was just about to start medications and bam woke up to a dead fish. The pearsei has been fine, but I notice the Midas acting up also, not showing much interest in food right now. Any ideas?

 

[DMD123]

I should have tested my water first, but went for a 50% water change to begin my morning. I am leaning toward an internal parasite issue. I am going to try some meds for the rest of the fish. Not sure if I will replace the Argentea with another cichlid. I have been looking for a snook but am just thinking about adding 2-3 more silver dollars and calling it done.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to hear It bro. Best way I found to treat internal parasites is prazipro soaked brine. Good luck.

 

[stierwalt3]

That's a drag!...Good luck!

 

[DMD123]

Sad cause she was a wild caught and was expensive!

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I feel your pain bro... it sucks when you lose a fish. Especially one you paid a lot for or had a long time.

 

[Madness]

That sucks 'D'. Did you notice white stringy poop before she passed, or even from the Midas? Let me know if you need any assistance.

 

[DMD123]

Nothing out of the ordinary. She just stopped eating and when I went to do something about it she was dead. The midas acts normal except he seems like he has no appetite. Been keeping a close watch on everyone and have not seen anything going on. No stringy poop seen. The argentea had no wounds on her and her fins were perfect and intact. She stood up to the pearsei and he would back down so I know at least it was not any fish aggression issues.

 

[Anthraxx]

man that sucks. that was a really gorgeous fish.... im amazed that a problem started within the last week.... went to see your stuff and it all looked okay. if anything i think it may be an overfeeding/clog issue. just my two cents. idk if there is fish laxatives.. but maybe try some?

 

[Madness]

The laxative is called Epson salt.

 

[Anthraxx]

o alrighty then. that makes sense.

 

[DMD123]

The laxative is called Epson salt.

Might try it-any dosage recommendations?

 

[Madness]

Treating Hexamita aka Spironucleus
Treating Hexamita aka Spironucleus with Epsom Salt Solution


]This is a rather safe way to treat any
newly imported fish, as a prophylactic, just as one would use a
de-wormer. It's not only an extremely cheap way to treat fish, the
active ingredients are readily available world-wide, and it's also much
safer than using most forms of medication. Unlike most medications,
there should be no worries about flagellates/pathogens building up a
resistance to it, and excess magnesium is easily flushed from a fishes
system. In my experience, it's very easy on fish, even very young
juvenile fish. The best part - it works! (If the fish has worms when arriving, the epsom salt solution in the feed will also help with purging any worms)

While Metronidazole has always been the drug of choice when combating
internal parasites such as hexamita and/or spironucleus, metro (or any
other type
of medication) should never be used on a regular basis as a
prophylactic, and doing so may cause flagellates/parasites to develop a
resistance to the medication, and possibly even mutate and become super
bugs. It's also been stated by at least one researcher that excessive
use of metronidazole can cause organ damage in fish.

In fish, an excessive use of metronidazole can damage kidneys and other internal organs.(Bassleer, 1983)

Other cons with metronidazole is its solubility in water is very poor, in aquarium settings it has been suggested that it can precipitate out of solution within 6-8 hours, and it can become rather expensive when treating large systems.

While doing some online research on spironucleus I came across an interesting study that mentioned the use of Magnesium sulphate (Epsom salt) in treating internal parasites in angel fish.
<a href="http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-120399-140825/unrestricted/ANGEL.PDF" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-120399-140825/unrestricted/ANGEL.PDF</a>

A long read (200+ pages) but the idea of using something as basic as
epsom salt to treat internal parasites in fish intrigued me, which in
turn lead me to dig deeper.


This is where it got interesting ........

The Israeli Journal of Aquaculture – Bamidgeh 57(2), 2005, 97-104.

<a href="http://siamb.org.il/uploads/57_2_Ogut.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://siamb.org.il/uploads/57_2_Ogut.pdf</a>

Mortality ceased with application of medicated feed (magnesium sulfate at 3% of the feed) - Hexamita salmonis.

In early June 2004, a treatment of magnesium sulfate (3% of feed for
three days) lowered the parasite load to almost undetectable levels.

In his book; Fish Disease: diagnosis and treatment, Edward J. Noga mentions treating hexamita (spironucleus) orally with Magnesium sulphate.

This is certainly encouraging news for anyone who's fish is still
eating, or begins eating after treatment with Metro. Not only does Epsom
salt assist in recovery when added directly to the aquarium (as per the
links above), but according to the research posted above it has a
deadly effect on hexamita when ingested.

Dr. Edward J. Noga, MS, DVM, is a highly respected professor of aquatic
medicine and immunology, and he has been published approx. 150 times in
related papers/journals. His lab at NC State University specializes in
the study of infectious diseases of finfish and shellfish. As a side
note for Discus keepers, Dr. Noga's book on fish disease is the book
that Andrew Soh often refers to for disease/treatment information.


Now for the treatment ......


For a 3% solution of Magnesium sulphate, add 1 level tablespoon (15
grams) magnesium sulphate to 500 milliliters of distilled water. Stir, and it's good to go.

Use an eye dropper or pipette to add to pellet food
(or any other food that will readily absorb it), and stop dripping
water once the pellets become saturated. Use only enough water to
saturate the food, with no excess water, so that the water soluble
vitamins in the food remain intact. Feed twice a day, for 3-5 days. (I
went with 5 days)

In extreme cases, the oral solution could be administered to a fish via a
pipette.Just make sure to use a flexible tip so as not to damage the
fishes esophagus when squirting the solution down the fishes throat.
Only a small amount is required, but repeat daily until the fish is
accepting pre-soaked pellets, and continue treatment for 5 days.


My own experience with this treatment ........ so far it's proven to be a
life saver, where all other previous 'textbook' methods of treatment
for internal parasites have failed, including several days of treating
with 500mg Metro per 10 gallons, while feeding Metro soaked food at the
same time. (fish was chewing & spitting, but was eating some food
twice a day)

In less than 48 hrs of the 3% Magnesium sulphate treatment, for the
first time in 30 days the fish was no longer shedding the mucous lining
of his intestine. (white/clear feces) After 5 days of feeding the 3%
solution via pellets, the fish had made a complete recovery & was
back eating like gang busters.

Hopefully some members here will find this information useful.

This is from another site with questions regarding the same issues.
[/size]

 

[DMD123]

I am doing a slow dosage of Epsom salt to see if my midas is constipated and that is why he is not eating. I found a suggested dose of 1 teaspoon per 5 gallon ratio. I have started with just enough to treat 100g. Will increase it again tomorrow, and keep an eye on him.

Thanks for the read madness. :study: will be at it a bit.

 

[DMD123]

Been watching the midas and see a little stringy poo. His mouth is looking a bit strange too. Not quite like the issues madness was having with the dovii, but it looks strange.

Just found it online, looks like the symptoms are just beginning for cottonmouth. This may have been what happened to the argentea. I had noticed a small patch on her side where it looked like she had scraped herself, it got a small touch of cotton like growth on it but soon went away with my regular water changes, so I thought nothing of it. Everything seems to fit with this fungus. I gravel vac regularly and water change also so I dont know why I have this going on in the tank.

 

[DMD123]

Got melafix for the fish.

Wow this is expensive stuff if you have to treat a big tank and you use the regular stuff. I got the ultra concentrated stuff used for ponds. 16oz for $14.97 and it treats 4,800 gallons! I can get it cheaper on-line but I needed it right away so I bought it at Petsmart. Already the midas seems more active and not acting so lethargic. His mouth is still fuzzy and he wont eat but he has enough fat on him that he "can live off the land" for a while. None of the other fish have shown any issues and are eating just fine.

 

[Anthraxx]

bummer i had some lying around. woulda been happy to pass it along. used it a lot for my bettas when they were breeding.. really increased the healing rates. i just wouldnt over do it as it has done in my tank before. i probably was a little late to the healing game.. but still did em all in. as always be careful and give em lots of fresh water. hopefully it clears up before you go on vaca this weekend. or by monday when i stop by

 

[Madness]

Hope all goes well. My Dovii issue is a form of mouth fungus. Be very careful. Salt daily water changes, and everything I read said lower tank temp to 75. The fungus grows at a more rapid rate the higher the temp.

Good luck.

 

[DMD123]

Right now I am treating with the Melafix, Pimafix combo. I have not added salt yet, need to stop by the store and get some. I saw your treatment on MFK and might try a dip and see if that helps. The whole duck lip thing is kind of what I also see going on. I feel sorry for him, he has lost a lot of pep and is still not eating... I wont give up!

 

[Madness]

If you want a second opinion please call, I will gladly come by and take a look.