UPDATED: STILL WACKY (Crazy water testing results.)
- Thread starter Ali
- Start date
Ali
Active Member
Re: Crazy water testing results.
When I do my 2x/week water changes I use Stress Coat (1ml per gallon), Equilibrium (1gram per gallon), and Excel comprehensive (1/2capful). I think it was really that high, but the low pH kept it as ammonium. It was tested against tap water and the other tanks, as well as with different kits when I brought a sample into the LFS.
Betta keeps managing to get out of the net breeder. (I see no weakness in the frame or holes in the net, so I guess he's jumping.) but he isn't giving the other fish too much trouble and seems to be having the time of his life.
Endler fry are going to get moved to the big tank too, so I can let the little ones just finishing knocking down the ammonia and just set them up again in the future.
When I do my 2x/week water changes I use Stress Coat (1ml per gallon), Equilibrium (1gram per gallon), and Excel comprehensive (1/2capful). I think it was really that high, but the low pH kept it as ammonium. It was tested against tap water and the other tanks, as well as with different kits when I brought a sample into the LFS.
Betta keeps managing to get out of the net breeder. (I see no weakness in the frame or holes in the net, so I guess he's jumping.) but he isn't giving the other fish too much trouble and seems to be having the time of his life.
Endler fry are going to get moved to the big tank too, so I can let the little ones just finishing knocking down the ammonia and just set them up again in the future.
Ali
Active Member
All the fish from the 5.5 went in to the 37 about two weeks ago. Singe then I've left the light on 24/7 (it's a lame LED desk lamp so probably not worth anything anyways.) Done one 50% water change but have otherwise just let it sit. Sponge filter is running, and there are still plenty of plants in there, all look just fine. Figured the bacteria would go through the ammonia and then maybe die off, so I'd have to start from scratch. But there was a lot of ammonia to go through.
NOPE. Ammonia is still 8 effing ppm.
pH is 6.4
Nitrite is 0
Nitrate is 0
I'm totally at a loss, unless somebody is breaking into my house to pour ammonia into my tank I can't find any explanation as to why it would still be so high.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
NOPE. Ammonia is still 8 effing ppm.
pH is 6.4
Nitrite is 0
Nitrate is 0
I'm totally at a loss, unless somebody is breaking into my house to pour ammonia into my tank I can't find any explanation as to why it would still be so high.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Ali
Active Member
I know it's common in window cleaners but honestly I've never known ammonia was a good tool to sterilize. Coming up through veterinary/zoological pursuits I'm a diehard bleach fan for sanitation, assuming organics are removed.
Gotcha. Since there are no fish in there (a few leftover blackworms in the substrate and some pond snails however, those appear to be doing just fine) I just kept siphoning water out and refilling it. Probably ended up with 175% of total water volume switched out, as well as a pretty damn thorough job with the gravel vac, hoping to find some big glob of decaying organic matter but no luck.
pH is now 7.4 and matches my tap. Ammonia is at 2.0ppm I guess I will just keep doing massive water changes until it gets to something reasonable. Then I can re-seed bio and start up again.
Gotcha. Since there are no fish in there (a few leftover blackworms in the substrate and some pond snails however, those appear to be doing just fine) I just kept siphoning water out and refilling it. Probably ended up with 175% of total water volume switched out, as well as a pretty damn thorough job with the gravel vac, hoping to find some big glob of decaying organic matter but no luck.
pH is now 7.4 and matches my tap. Ammonia is at 2.0ppm I guess I will just keep doing massive water changes until it gets to something reasonable. Then I can re-seed bio and start up again.
MattArmstrong
Member
Ali said:
Aquarium Co-Op said:
Aquarium Co-Op said:
Below pH 6.4 it was all Ammonium, which probably explains how things survived.
I don't know why the tank hasn't cycled, but my understanding is that nitrification occurs on Ammonia, not Ammonium, so if pH drives it all to Ammonium there is nothing to cycle.
I just dug around and found http://nitrification.org/, which just tells me that the subject is more complex than I care to dig into this evening!
Okay, can't resist, one other related thread: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/forums/my- ... gen-cycle/, which points to http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0023281, which then claims that it bacteria are not the primary organisms oxidizing ammonia in our freshwater tanks. The thread also mentions that certain niches of fish keepers that always deal with low pH water don't ever worry about cycling their tanks.
Ali
Active Member
It's been 4 days since the massive water change, still no fish in the tank whatsoever, and I just tested the 5.5 again.
pH: 6.6
Ammonia: 4.0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
Where the heck is this ammonia coming from? Remember it was still sitting high, but I did a massive change and ammonia was down to 0.5ppm or so, pH close to what comes out of my tap.
There are still plenty of snails and blackworms. In fact, I think the worms are multiplying, which will be good when I get fish back in there. But don't think they are dying off in any quantity to create this ammonia. I'm stumped!
pH: 6.6
Ammonia: 4.0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
Where the heck is this ammonia coming from? Remember it was still sitting high, but I did a massive change and ammonia was down to 0.5ppm or so, pH close to what comes out of my tap.
There are still plenty of snails and blackworms. In fact, I think the worms are multiplying, which will be good when I get fish back in there. But don't think they are dying off in any quantity to create this ammonia. I'm stumped!
Ali, do you have fb? If so pm me and I will get you in touch with a guy who is good at this kind of stuff. I know no knowledge but he can break down the good and bads of salts to make me understand. Lol he's great.
flamechica
New Member
Sorry, if this has been asked before, but what kind of substrate do you have in this tank? I once had crazy numbers going on in a tank. It was so long ago that I can't remember what exactly was going off the charts....which is kinda why I hadn't mentioned this before, but you have been dealing with this for so long, it's worth a shot mentioning it. I did water change after water change and the numbers would go down and then it seemed like almost within a few hours or the next day they would immediately go right back up again. Then this guy at this fish store that I liked, but is now closed, suggested that I take a little bit of my substrate out, which happened to be those damned painted rocks from like walmart or petco, etc and put them in a cup of tap water overnight and test that. What do you know, that tested crazy. It was those rocks leeching the paint into my tank causing the crazy numbers. I had to change the substrate. After that, it was all good.
Keep in mind testing within 24 hours of a water change won't be the correct readings.
Ali
Active Member
That's a good idea flamechica, but this is just a small gravel/sandy substrate. I will try putting some in a cup to test anyways though.
Someone else suggested testing water from my tap 24 hours after it comes out, so I've got little cups of water sitting all over the place now
Someone else suggested testing water from my tap 24 hours after it comes out, so I've got little cups of water sitting all over the place now
MattArmstrong
Member
Throwing darts at a wall:
a) It probably would not take too many dead blackworms or snails, maybe hiding just under the gravel, to spike ammonia.
b) Ammonia at that level retards/kills the bio. I think you have "no hope" but to do more water changes.
c) Amendment to (b): except for perhaps Seachem Stability, if you believe their blurb: "When other bacteria begin to die off (usually from high organic loads caused by the undetected death of an organism), Stability® simply works harder and grows faster!" In my readings, I did see mention of nitrification bacteria that thrive in high ammonia environments (typically used in waste water treatment).
d) I don't think science fully understands this stuff. Only recently did a study come out that found that the nitrogen cycle in freshwater tanks is predominantly driven not by bacteria but "archaea". For our purposes they are still a single-cell organism, but I don't think anybody really knows which organisms end up doing all the work in "mature" aquariums. I wonder if this is why some "delicate" fish do better in tanks that are "well established" -- for the first few months in a tank the bio is, perhaps, still adjusting from organisms that handle high levels of ammonia (early on) to those that out-compete the first wave of bacteria when the ammonia and nitrite levels are consistently low.
e) It is a small tank. Perhaps pull the plants, save some snails (if you like them), and hose out and/or boil the substrate, and begin fresh?
a) It probably would not take too many dead blackworms or snails, maybe hiding just under the gravel, to spike ammonia.
b) Ammonia at that level retards/kills the bio. I think you have "no hope" but to do more water changes.
c) Amendment to (b): except for perhaps Seachem Stability, if you believe their blurb: "When other bacteria begin to die off (usually from high organic loads caused by the undetected death of an organism), Stability® simply works harder and grows faster!" In my readings, I did see mention of nitrification bacteria that thrive in high ammonia environments (typically used in waste water treatment).
d) I don't think science fully understands this stuff. Only recently did a study come out that found that the nitrogen cycle in freshwater tanks is predominantly driven not by bacteria but "archaea". For our purposes they are still a single-cell organism, but I don't think anybody really knows which organisms end up doing all the work in "mature" aquariums. I wonder if this is why some "delicate" fish do better in tanks that are "well established" -- for the first few months in a tank the bio is, perhaps, still adjusting from organisms that handle high levels of ammonia (early on) to those that out-compete the first wave of bacteria when the ammonia and nitrite levels are consistently low.
e) It is a small tank. Perhaps pull the plants, save some snails (if you like them), and hose out and/or boil the substrate, and begin fresh?