UPDATED: STILL WACKY (Crazy water testing results.)

[Ali]

My API test kit arrived today, thanks to a member who posted on here that Amazon was having a sale!

Ran a test on my 37gal. Things came up about how I was expecting:
pH: 7.4 (didn't think it was that high, but nothing weird)
Ammonia: 0.25ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm


Then getting ready for bed I decided to test the little tanks in the bedroom.

5.5gal (nothing in there but a few endler fry and some plants. I expected ammonia to be lower but otherwise the same)
pH: 6.0 (that seems a bit low)
Ammonia: OFF THE CHARTS. Colors run from yellow to blue, this was freaking purple. 8.0ppm is as high as it shows on the card, I'm guessing at least at 12ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: >80ppm

WHAT THE HECK?! This is my longest running tank, I've had it for over 6 months and the previous owner kept it running for 3 years before that. Sponge filter running with a decent current. I know some food gets wasted, having just a few little fish in there; but I try to avoid overfeeding at all costs. Where the heck could this have come from?

Now I test the 3gal aquaponics set-up with the betta. It's marketed to never need water changes, as the plants growing up top (I grow wheatgrass) will fully remove waste. I still do regular changes anyway.
pH: also 6.0
Ammonia: 8+
Nitrite: 0.25ppm
Nitrates: Off the charts, above 160ppm

So both tanks get a 50% water change right there. When I re-test ammonia comes down a bit, but still in dangerously high levels. I'll keep doing water changes whenever I get a spare minute until the numbers come down.

Is there something I'm missing here? I'm tempted to just dump everybody into the 37 so they can be in something a bit more normal. Just let the little tans run with just plants for awhile?

I did rinse testing vials thoroughly. I also tested water out of the tap those tanks are filled from as a comparison. Looked like 7.4pH and <.25ppm Ammonia.

 

[vtran86]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

possibly old tank syndrome?

 

[tazeat]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

Test the kit? Fill a glass or bowl with room temp tap water and do a test on that.

Make sure you're following the directions for each test to a T.

 

[KaraWolf]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

Eesh o.o No I wouldnt dump them in a new tank unless they look sick the change in pH would probably shock them to death. More then likely old tank syndrome, or more food then you thought getting wasted

 

[anthony]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

I thought ammonia runs from yellow to dark green. if ammonia was at 12 your fish would be dead . at 5ppm your killing your fish.I just looked at my api ammonia test and it goes from yellow to dark green. You should mark the glass vials so you are using the same vial for the same test every time because if you test ammonia in a vial and then test ph in the same vial with the mix up of the chemicals and colors your test might not be as accurate that's why they give you 4 vials for 4 different tests. Maybe they changed the ammonia test but I just got this one awhile ago and it has been like this 4 many years.

 

[Bob]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

After green the next color is purple, a real dark purple. I had a tank hit dark purple during its first cycle.

I think kenan hit dark purple when his 125 crashed too

 

[Madness]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

Are you vigorously shaking the bottles prior to the test and shaking the vials after dripping into them?

I just want to point out something in your first paragraph,
"Ran a test on my 37gal. Things came up about how I was expecting:
pH: 7.4 (didn't think it was that high, but nothing weird)
Ammonia: 0.25ppm (This is not good, ammonia must read 00.00 otherwise your fish are being poisoned)
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm" (This should NEVER read 0, if your tank is properly cycled you should always have a reading of something here. Anything between 20-40ppm is reasonable)\

This leads me to believe that you may have not done the tests correctly. If your ammonia was that high, the slime coat would be falling off of your fish, and red streaks appearing all over them. Not to mention they would all be dead.

 

[Bob]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

My planted tanks always read 0ppm for nitrates, at first i thought my kit was defective so i bought another same thing, borrowed a friends still read zero. Now i dose nitrates and my plants are doing way better. But these are very heavily planted.

 

[Madness]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

My planted tanks always read 0ppm for nitrates, at first i thought my kit was defective so i bought another same thing, borrowed a friends still read zero. Now i dose nitrates and my plants are doing way better. But these are very heavily planted.

Do you have fish in these tanks? Thats probably the reason, not enough waste or food.

 

[Ali]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

I retested again, stuff still looks about the same. I'll attach pictures of the scary dark purple from last night once my computer gets woken up

 

[Ali]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

From left to right: Betta, 5.5, 37, and water as it comes from my tap. Taken minutes ago


That's a scary color if ever I've seen one. This was last ngiht before massive water changes

 

[Madness]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

I dont know how your fish are alive. I would do a 50% plus water change immediately and get some Prime in there to at least make the ammonia safe for your fish.

I also read above that one of your tanks says never cleaning, yea you always need to do maintenance and water changes.

 

[Ali]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

Because scienceis repeatable I used different vials and still got the exact same results. Holy cow.


Endlers and bettas are both supposed to be tough but this is insanity. They all are looking fine. But yeah I'm changing water like mad. Don't have prime but I'm using stress coat.

This evening I get to freak out about ammonia in the 37..

 

[Madness]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

Stress coat helps to remove the chlorine, but it will not make the ammonia livable for your fish. Prime will neutralize the ammonia so that u can get a hold of the issue.

 

[Ali]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

I'll run to the LFS and get some to use in my water changes.

Is doing 50% 2-3x a day, and 15% in the 37 going to be enough? Anything too drastic will mess with pH and stress fish more. I still don't get how everyone looks fine. Plants are growing, everybody is eating and no redness on gills.

 

[Madness]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

Just once/day at 50% will suffice. and I would do at least 25-30% on the 37, 15% of that is like 5 gallons.

 

[Bob]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

Do you have fish in these tanks? Thats probably the reason, not enough waste or food.

I would guess around 75 fish in my 125 and about 30ish fish in my 40 breeder. I spend a lot of time over at plantedtank.net trying to figure out the 0 nitrates and seems that its pretty common in planted tanks.

As far as why fish are alive in that high ammonia. Those test kits measure the sum of both NH3 and NH4 ammonia. NH3 is toxic to fish while NH4 is mostly non toxic. So maybe a large portion of the ammonia is NH4? Also a lot of new studies coming out that show ammonia to be non toxic at lower ph levels. I read one study recently from the University of Kentucky that claims only 10% of ammonia is toxic at a ph below 8. And the toxicity rises with the ph, and also higher temps increase the toxicity. The entire study was pretty interesting.

 

[ShortyKiloGyrl]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

FishNAbowl and I were talking about that too. The same study. Maybe he will step in and shed some light or steve from aquarium zen who is fishNAbowl learned from I think.

 

[Cory]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

Do you have fish in these tanks? Thats probably the reason, not enough waste or food.

I would guess around 75 fish in my 125 and about 30ish fish in my 40 breeder. I spend a lot of time over at plantedtank.net trying to figure out the 0 nitrates and seems that its pretty common in planted tanks.

As far as why fish are alive in that high ammonia. Those test kits measure the sum of both NH3 and NH4 ammonia. NH3 is toxic to fish while NH4 is mostly non toxic. So maybe a large portion of the ammonia is NH4? Also a lot of new studies coming out that show ammonia to be non toxic at lower ph levels. I read one study recently from the University of Kentucky that claims only 10% of ammonia is toxic at a ph below 8. And the toxicity rises with the ph, and also higher temps increase the toxicity. The entire study was pretty interesting.

Below 6.4 pH ammonia changes to ammonium. Which is essentially non toxic to fish. This can be a killer when dealing with fish who have been in bags for a long time being transhipped from over seas. Once you start acclimating them you'll kill them. This is why a lot of us have to put fish from 1 ph to another ph straight away.

 

[MattArmstrong]

Re: Crazy water testing results.

This is the best account of the relation between Ammonia, Ammonium and pH that I've seen:

[youtube]v1vIyGf9kRI[/youtube]

Ali, be very careful with your pH. Those tiny tanks can swing quickly.

I don't know where you are, but many places in western WA have tap water with low KH. Both your little tanks have plants. Plants will suck the KH down to zero over time. KH is a pH buffer. Low KH means low pH is likely. My tap water has 2 KH and I've measured zero KH after just a few weeks of no water changes in a moderately planted tank. In this case it has worked in your favor on the Ammonia/Ammonium thing. But, a water change will raise your kH, and I'd be watching pH to make sure you stay below the magic 6.4 pH to keep Ammonia out of the picture.

Definitely get some Seachem Prime, as Madness suggested. Dose it as high as the instructions tell you for emergency situations (bottle has the info). It will de-toxify Nitrites too. Prime may let you safely do enough large water changes to get your nitrogenous wastes down to sane levels.

Your tanks may have de-cycled, or never properly cycled. I'd be testing pH, Ammonia, Nitrite regularly until you have gotten zero readings out of Ammonia and Nitrites for a few days in a row. I'd also look at buffering your KH with just a bit of crushed coral...but only after you've handled the Ammonia.

You may be overfeeding. It is very easy to do. You may think you aren't but actually are. I've been there. I can't believe how little small fish like bettas can do well on. Here's what I do now:

1) Turn the filters off, let the water become still.
2) Use a feeding ring (e.g. a circle of airline tubing, or a purpose built ring you can buy). This keeps the food from spreading all over the tank.
3) Throw some food in a ring.
4) Is there un-eaten food after 3 minutes? If so, I over fed. Try to net or siphon that food out.
5) Turn filters back on.

This is especially important if you're feeding fine food (flakes, granules) but have big gravel. That food will fall into the gravel where no fish will ever find it. This is why many fish breeders have bare bottom tanks, or use thin layers of fine gravel or sand in their tanks.

Any more details you can give on your 37 gal? Tank history, occupants, water change schedule, plant load, lighting, substrate, characteristics of your tap water? We can give better advice with those details.