The Hybrid Argument

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sandnuka

New Member
Ok Ok, This is always a good heated conversation to start.......... What are peoples thoughts on Hybrids, Flowerhorn, Blood parrot???? What about genetic mutation, or dying the fish...... anyone seen that done???? Ill tell you it freaked me out to see such a array of colors on a blood parrot... lol

Might as well speak my side..... I honestly have not really gotten in to the flowerhorns...... I think blood parrots are ugly..... In my tanks I like to Immitate the nature..... I like to have a tank set up exactly like Lake Tanganyika, fish that are native there, not fish that have been man made..... in whatever water they want it to be in......

Edited by Admin to add Poll
 
aaronfeeney

aaronfeeney

Active Member
undecided

as with dogs doesn't pure bred+ a smaller gene pool??? causing all sorts of genetic defects ,,, physical , and less prominent mental??ie... agression, or un natural behavior??
 
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Anonymous

Guest
My opinion of dogs is that the "mutts" are more often really good dogs because you are not trying to acomplish certain traits. There are only a small handfull of wild dogs. None of wich (imo) are loyal and trustworthy pets.

With fish its the other end of the spectrum instead of starting with only a few spcs you are staring with several and trying to pull out desireable traits. This causes a dumbing down of some traits and an enhancement of others. For example ask anyone who has been breeding flowerhorns for several years getting a compatible pair with the right dominant and resesive genes is far more difficult then throwing two central or south american cichlids of the same spcs and letting them do what comes naturally to them. But I have seen flower horns take out a dovii (top dog) that was twice the flower horns size. So with a hybrid I feel you lose some good traits and gain some. Really who dosent love a big nasty mean fish that can take out a fish twice its size.

I have a large amount of respect for the work and dedication that goes into creating some of these stunning flowerhorns. But I will never own one and I cull any fry that are a result of hybreeding in my tanks.
 
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alexmuw

New Member
I for the most part I like "real" cichlids. However, I do own 1 blood red parrot, i think it's cute :D

As for the dog argument, ever heard of an Akita Inu? (NOT American Akita; they look very different. Most countries consider them 2 different breeds) Akita Inu are VERY loyal and intelligent, and one of the "ancient" dog breeds.

For flowerhorns, never liked them. They have some awesome colors, but the whole, fish with "balls" on its head never appealed to me :lol!:
 
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sandnuka

New Member
Now we are gettin started, So a little bit of passion on a subject in this forum...... Well we know my reall opinion, but because of lack of support....... I will play the advocate.... ive been in some debates over this, so I know allot of good points to bring up... lol

For the dog argument, The bloodhound, was breed almost 1000 yrs ago.... its specific abilities have saved more lifes than any other species of dog.... well if one of those dogs found my missing children, I would thank god everyday for that hybrid....
The aquarium used for eye decor in a home..... well, if you like to look at gorgeous pinks, blues, pearls, floating in crystal clear water why would you not own a flowerhorn.... There magnificent....
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Are akita naturally accuring? I dident know that. I was under the impression that all "dogs" are derived from the diffrent variants of wolves, cyotes, and foxes. All of wich untill breed to be stupid and follow what the human tells you to do were unpredictable, and wildly behaved. Don't get me wrong I'm a very proud companion of two purebred boxers who I adore. But they are breed for certain traits few of wich would be usefull if there was no human interaction. So they are bred for human companionship as well as "human" jobs, rather then just following instinct to hunt for food, breed, establish a hyarchy withen a pack etc.....
 
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sandnuka

New Member
Ok, good point..... so Dogs can be bread for companionship and the selfishness of the owner.... but fish cant???
 
aaronfeeney

aaronfeeney

Active Member
dogs

the point I was trying to make with the dog example is that, as the gene pool becomes smaller(pure bred) purer. The animals become inbred,,, dumber , meaner, possibly deformed and a whole host of other genetic problems,,, this is the same reason it is illegal to marry your cousins. Wouldn't the "pure bred " fish be the same???? I am not talking about creating new species, just keeping a diverse gene pool
 
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sandnuka

New Member
Ok Ok.... I hear you now..... Arent we creating new species with these hybrids though???? The flowerhorn is a new species, so is the blood parrot..... and this you think is wrong???? but you kinda justifyin it by saying to not keep inbreeding..... Wich I understand completly.... I raised a colony of WC (Wild caught) Frontosa Kigoma Cichlids.... My offspring were F1 (First Generation).

The Burundi Frontosa Cichlid has soooo much inbreeding going on it has now developed several problems such as mooning (Splitting of the stripes near the top), etc.... Its also impossible to tell if there are F1 burundi around anymore.... So I see your point on inbreeding, but your still against developing a new gorgeous species... Like the colorful flowerhorn???? Or your undecided???
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I think the words hybreeding and inbreeding are getting mixed up here.
 
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Kingstature

New Member
We are all Hybrids Essentially (Without the in breeding at least in the U.S.)

Wow this went way off course.... Are we talking hybrids or Incestual Breeding?
In breeding would be with brothers and sisters, cousins, uncles etc. occurs more often than not in wild schools of fish..
Hybrids are for example would be taking a Wild Pink convict and mating with a wild black convict to create what some call the hybrid Marbled convicts, Or a Flowerhorn (Hybrid) Paired with a Parrot Cichlid (hybrid) = Flower parrots (Hybrids)
Now when you take these fry and start breeding the brothers and sisters together then you have inbreeding and that is when you get deformities in fish and blah coloring etc.. Again this is just my opinion and Im sticking too it even if its wrong....LoL... :king:
 
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sandnuka

New Member
Now we got the definitions straight

alright, so we got the definitions straight I think...... now back to the subject..... and everyone needs to get in on this subject.... its good stuff to read!!!!

In case we forgot.... Do you Agree or Disagree with Hybrids/making new species????? Please explain your answer! :roll:
 
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Kingstature

New Member
Oh yeah

Heck Yea Joe you know how I feel on the subject... Hybrids for me I love coming up with my very own sub species but no to inbreeding
 
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sandnuka

New Member
MAKE YOUR VOTE!!!!

Kingstature, ok buddy.... our awesome ADMIN, Mikey.... has hooked us up with a poll..... make your vote... Im curious just how many people love/hate these fish.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Depends

I think their okay as long as you enjoy them and don't try and pass them off as something their not. Being a hybrid fish in most cases isn't causing harm to them, What I don't support is the tattooing and dying of fish, that causes harm to them and I will not purchase tattooed or dyed fish.
 
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sandnuka

New Member
Wow, I am impressed! as far as the poll is showing people are ok with hybrids... I guess because Im more of a naturalist and always was part of forums for specific species so it kinda got stuck in my head that they were bad.
 
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sidekicking

New Member
I also don't like hybrids
I think man should not mess with nature, but I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder
to me the blood parrot is very ugly looking lol
 
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