low light plant list

[EllensburgWA]

When Einstein first presented his theory of relativity, he was not well received and even ridiculed. We see this everywhere in the great minds of the past. Some of our greatest thinkers were actually killed for daring to express the truth of science in opposition to the 'political correctness' that the majority inappropriately 'perceive'. This is unfortunately human behavior. People do not like 'know-it-alls'. They are generally offended by people of great intellect. I am not trying to be offensive but actually trying to share and explain things.

 

[EllensburgWA]

Example, I can but a '200 watt' light bulb over my tank putting out warm white light (actually 1,000k)

Wow! A 1000K bulb. Please let me know where you can buy a bulb rated 1000k. I'll try it over my shallow tanks.
: :

MOST incandescent bulbs produce K values of 2000k (warm white light). But they do in fact go lower. K values under 1000k are infrared lights. You can buy them. So go ahead and try them over your shallow tank. The result will be death of the plant from heat. You can even go lower to a single K. We call it microwave. You can even go lower to what we call radio waves.

 

[pbmax]

I have a decent background in physics and chemistry. I understand all of what you're saying. I realize that watts are a measure of work that doesn't directly reflect on what plants require to photosynthesize. However, it's a simple fact that putting bulbs rated at higher energy consumption over my tanks produces better growth when supplied with increased amounts of fertilization. More energy consumed generally means more light output. Granted, it's not a linear relationship, but the fact remains. One 23w bulb of the same type, brand, and K-rating will generally provide more usable light to a plant below it than a 18w bulb. That was my point.

 

[EllensburgWA]

I have a decent background in physics and chemistry. I understand all of what you're saying. I realize that watts are a measure of work that doesn't directly reflect on what plants require to photosynthesize. However, it's a simple fact that putting bulbs rated at higher energy consumption over my tanks produces better growth when supplied with increased amounts of fertilization. More energy consumed generally means more light output. Granted, it's not a linear relationship, but the fact remains. One 23w bulb of the same type, brand, and K-rating will generally provide more usable light to a plant below it than a 18w bulb. That was my point.

I will give you some ground here. And so you are correct in one regard. In the old days we only had incandescent light bulbs. Only one technology. Because we were limited to that one technology (at least in the common household and aquarium hobby), we could LOOSELY ASSOCIATE watts to what we now call PAR. But PAR and wattage are mutually exclusive. Our CFLs today are far more efficient than the incandescent bulbs of the past. Note, if we limited ourselves to this one technology and everyone was limited to CFL light bulbs, then we could again loosely associate watts with PAR but our rule would then be three-tenths (0.3) of a watt instead of 1 full watt per gallon of aquarium water. If we used the old rule with CFL, we would get three times the amount of light. This can actually kill our plants because we might express the upper allowable range as say 10 watts per gallon... but actually kill our plants because our CFL is three times the intended limit. The problem is that we have better and MANY different technologies of light (quartz halogen, metal halide, mecury verse sodium, CFL etc, etc). And so there is no one rule. And that is because there is no quantifiable or direct conversion of watts to the many different sources of light.

Pbmax, I really do not intend to be offensive. I care about people. How you use watts is more appropriately expressed as PAR. Watt is not a part of PAR. Watts are completely consuned and converted to lumens, wavelegth, etc including inefficiencies (friction, heat) that are not transferred to the builb or the light it emits. There is no quantifiable dirrect conversion.

 

[EllensburgWA]

Pbmax, I really appreciate our discussion here. While I tend to come across as a 'know-it-all' and offensive to some, I am learning things too in our discussion. Thank you.

 

[pbmax]

How you use watts is more appropriately expressed as PAR. Watt is not a part of PAR. Watts are completely consuned and converted to lumens, wavelegth, etc including inefficiencies (friction, heat) that are not transferred to the builb or the light it emits. There is no quantifiable dirrect conversion.

Haha, that's like telling some poor guy in a minivan that he'd appreciate the drive a lot more in a ferrari. In other news, the sky is blue (grey...) and water is wet.

I'll tell you what - you mail me a PAR meter and I'll express my tank lighting in PAR. Until then, I gotta slum it with wpg along with a detailed explanation of what sort of lighting I'm using.

 

[EllensburgWA]

How you use watts is more appropriately expressed as PAR. Watt is not a part of PAR. Watts are completely consuned and converted to lumens, wavelegth, etc including inefficiencies (friction, heat) that are not transferred to the builb or the light it emits. There is no quantifiable dirrect conversion.

Haha, that's like telling some poor guy in a minivan that he'd appreciate the drive a lot more in a ferrari. In other news, the sky is blue (grey...) and water is wet.

I'll tell you what - you mail me a PAR meter and I'll express my tank lighting in PAR. Until then, I gotta slum it with wpg along with a detailed explanation of what sort of lighting I'm using.

I would encourage you to express the lumens and wattage of your various light bulbs including the summations of lumens and the variuos wavelengths. This in another alternative to PAR readings. I apologize to you. If it is any consolation, I used to make a decent salary as a consultant to fortune 100 companies but today I am entirely indigent, unable to work, and cannot pay my debts. I live on the other side of the tracks now, actually driving a car much like your own but an older model with more rust and dents. :|

 

[pbmax]

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly afford a PAR meter, I just don't want to spend $300 on something I don't really "need" (air quotes!).

You do make a good point, however, so I busted my ass and went into the other room to get my bulb boxes.

Once upon a time, Lowes sold "Bright Effects" compact fluorescent bulbs. These were available in 2700k, 4200k (if memory serves), and 6500k colors (I bought the 6500Ks of course). Unfortunately, they don't sell these anymore, which really sucks. I'm still using them, but when it comes time to replace them I'm not going to be able to get 18w 6500K bulbs. The Sylvania 6500Ks they sell now are twice as expensive (possibly more) and are only available in 13w and 23w varieties.

But I digress. I use dual-socket perfecto "incandescent" fixtures over my 10g tanks with coil-style Bright Effects 6500K bulbs - 2 per fixture. Over 2 of them I have 2x23w bulbs which are rated at 1600 lumens - 3200 lumens total. Over one I have 2x18w bulbs which are rated at 1100lumens - 2200 lumens total. Over my new 20g tank I'm using 3x13w Sylvania 6500K CFL bulbs in shop lights rated at 800 lumens each - 2400 lumens total.

In summary (L/g == Lumens per gallon):

2x10g tanks with 320L/g
1x10g tank with 220L/g
1x20g tank with 120L/g (low light by anyone's classification)
All 6500K

You're right about one thing - the lumens/w ratio changes with higher light output, a big nail in the wpg coffin. The 23w bulbs are at about 70L/w, while the 18w and 13w bulbs are at about 61L/w. Something about the bigger bulbs makes them slightly more efficient, it seems.

To bring this post back on topic - I currently have red root floater, frogbit, water lettuce (all floating plants) in my 20g, along with a heaping portion of floating guppy grass that seems happy so far. And the big female endler in there finally popped, so I have little endlers enjoying the floating plants now.

 

[sidekicking]

So the light bulbs at lowes aren't good anymore

 

[pbmax]

Well, the Sylvania 13w and 23w 6500K bulbs are still good, but they're expensive and there's no 18w variety available anymore Make sure you get 6500K bulbs. The off-brand "daylight" bulbs they carry are 5000K - not as appropriate for plants.

 

[EllensburgWA]

Do a search on Amazon. I lookjed last night. Use the Amazon search, for "CFL 6500k".

They had 4-pack 23w 6500k bulbs for less than $3 each with free shipping if the order was more than $20 (?).

 

[EllensburgWA]

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly afford a PAR meter, I just don't want to spend $300 on something I don't really "need" (air quotes!).

You do make a good point, however, so I busted my ass and went into the other room to get my bulb boxes.

Once upon a time, Lowes sold "Bright Effects" compact fluorescent bulbs. These were available in 2700k, 4200k (if memory serves), and 6500k colors (I bought the 6500Ks of course). Unfortunately, they don't sell these anymore, which really sucks. I'm still using them, but when it comes time to replace them I'm not going to be able to get 18w 6500K bulbs. The Sylvania 6500Ks they sell now are twice as expensive (possibly more) and are only available in 13w and 23w varieties.

But I digress. I use dual-socket perfecto "incandescent" fixtures over my 10g tanks with coil-style Bright Effects 6500K bulbs - 2 per fixture. Over 2 of them I have 2x23w bulbs which are rated at 1600 lumens - 3200 lumens total. Over one I have 2x18w bulbs which are rated at 1100lumens - 2200 lumens total. Over my new 20g tank I'm using 3x13w Sylvania 6500K CFL bulbs in shop lights rated at 800 lumens each - 2400 lumens total.

In summary (L/g == Lumens per gallon):

2x10g tanks with 320L/g
1x10g tank with 220L/g
1x20g tank with 120L/g (low light by anyone's classification)
All 6500K

You're right about one thing - the lumens/w ratio changes with higher light output, a big nail in the wpg coffin. The 23w bulbs are at about 70L/w, while the 18w and 13w bulbs are at about 61L/w. Something about the bigger bulbs makes them slightly more efficient, it seems.

To bring this post back on topic - I currently have red root floater, frogbit, water lettuce (all floating plants) in my 20g, along with a heaping portion of floating guppy grass that seems happy so far. And the big female endler in there finally popped, so I have little endlers enjoying the floating plants now.

This is awesome description!!!

See my post from a second ago. 23w 6500K bulbs at Amazon for under $3 in a pack of 4. Use the amazon-search phrase I gave .

 

[pbmax]

Note to self: EBurgWA wants MORE DETAILS next time

Yeah... but Lowes is only a couple miles from my house and it was super handy to be able to just go there and pick stuff up. I do love me some amazon prime 2-day shipping... but that's 2 days after I want a bulb most of the time. I should have what I want RIGHT NOW, right?

 

[EllensburgWA]

There is an effort by the light companies to increase the price of the 6500K bulbs. In fact some companies are holding back intentionally to cause increasing demand and thus profits. I went into two stores here recently and not one of them had 6500k bulbs anymore. The light packages have stopped advertising the K value hoping that you will buy the cheaper bulbs based on price alone. So be careful out there.

 

[EllensburgWA]

Note to self: EBurgWA wants MORE DETAILS next time

Yeah... but Lowes is only a couple miles from my house and it was super handy to be able to just go there and pick stuff up. I do love me some amazon prime 2-day shipping... but that's 2 days after I want a bulb most of the time. I should have what I want RIGHT NOW, right?

Yes! :bounce:

 

[pbmax]

Maybe... I'm thinking it's more that people just don't buy the 6500K stuff. People want 2700K; they whine it's too white at even 4100K. These stores don't cater to us aquarium nerds... which is why I was somewhat surprised to discover cheap 6500K bulbs at Lowes years ago.

Now, the light snobs will poo-poo you if you use coil-type CFL bulbs because of the double-strike issue and crappy reflectors in incandescent fixtures that fit them, but they do in fact work very well. And even a $4.50 sylvania bulb is better than $12 + shipping for a single T5HO bulb that I use in my high light tanks.

 

[EllensburgWA]

Note to self: EBurgWA wants MORE DETAILS next time

Yeah... but Lowes is only a couple miles from my house and it was super handy to be able to just go there and pick stuff up. I do love me some amazon prime 2-day shipping... but that's 2 days after I want a bulb most of the time. I should have what I want RIGHT NOW, right?

Actually, your description is perfect. I can actually use that quantitatively to buy other types of lights by comparing your parameters. Once we find two different bulbs that produce similarly, THEN we can use wattage to tell us which is cheaper to run. :

 

[pbmax]

Assuming they're not lying through their teeth on the specs. I don't have equipment to measure lumens either. I do have a watt meter!

 

[EllensburgWA]

Maybe... I'm thinking it's more that people just don't buy the 6500K stuff. People want 2700K; they whine it's too white at even 4100K. These stores don't cater to us aquarium nerds... which is why I was somewhat surprised to discover cheap 6500K bulbs at Lowes years ago.

Now, the light snobs will poo-poo you if you use coil-type CFL bulbs because of the double-strike issue and crappy reflectors in incandescent fixtures that fit them, but they do in fact work very well. And even a $4.50 sylvania bulb is better than $12 + shipping for a single T5HO bulb that I use in my high light tanks.

All you have to do is go to youtube and see what the 'growers' are using for mar-a-wana. Thousands of posts and praise for the CFL. I can get a wool sweater at fred meyers but family members will look down on me :evil: because the sweater has no "north face" emblem on it. Functionally, it works just fine. :rabbit:

 

[EllensburgWA]

If necessary, you can use a video camera or digitsl camera - two bulbs next to each other. The image will show difference in color (L) and intensity (lumens). There are youtube videos demonstrating this. After the first purchase but then we can share on line to demonstrate differences so others do not have to repeating the effort. .