Aulonocara Babies~ Sunshine / Orange Shoulder

[Zerc]

if someone wants to create a new strain of fish, by all means do so. just like breeders do with "fancy" guppies. they find a trait they like, and breed for it until their stock breeds true, then they can sell it as a specific "strain".

 

[fishloverRon]

nobody really cares if you have hybrids or not, we just dont want the pure bloods to be wiped out by irresponsible breeding.

I agree, but the irresponsibility would be in the ''selling'', not necessarily in the breeding...don't you think? And of course the integrity of the seller is always an issue to consider. Whether horse trading, dog trading, plum tree trading, or fish trading.

So, no argument from me.

Danny, I know you are going to seel them as possible mutts...right?

 

[Zerc]

Any of you nay-sayers ever heard of the "fancy" guppy? Great Danes or Chihuahuas? Tennessee Walkers or Quarterhorses?

We dont want the fish hobby to go where horse / dog / cat hobbies are irreversibly stuck now.

want to buy a dog? fine, it will cost you $10 for a puppy on CL.

want to buy a genuine pure bred lab? have fun. Find an AKC breeder with papers and be prepared to pay anywhere from $300 to $1500+

horses cost way more.

Do you want to have to pay $300+ for a genuine run of the mill jack dempsey? Id rather not.

 

[Zerc]

I don't think the problem is with danny selling them as mutts, it is the person who buys them from him selling or breeding and selling the offspring as pures.

 

[Zerc]

There is a saying i think is appropriate.

If you have a barrel of crap and add a teaspoon of expensive wine, you have a barrel of crap.

if you have a barrel of expensive wine and add a teaspoon of crap, you have a barrel of crap.


it doesnt take much to ruin a lot.

 

[AE86-Danny]

I don't think the problem is with danny selling them as mutts, it is the person who buys them from him selling or breeding and selling the offspring as pures.

i agree with this 100%

You are right in every way.
and my intention with these babies isnt to sell them off to just anyone as mutts.
i may give them to a few deserving friends and explain to them, the situation.

for now ill only be selling yellow electric pures, as that is what i have.

i mean if you look at my first post, i never had intentions in selling the aulonocara's infact i wanted to keep ALL of them for myself.
aulonocara's are my absolute favorite cichlid. from the colors to the personality.

so im not really sure why everyone is jumping down my throat for having them. again because selling was my last intention.


i only agree'd to selling the yellow electrics that were just born, and again they are pure. 100% yellow electric. no tricks or trades

 

[Zerc]

oh no one minds you having hybrids, we are just scared of pollution of species because it happens more often than it should. there is no way to track it easily with fish, unlike the other species mentioned.

for example, my convict is part alligator.

 

[Betty]

I suggested you let her spit in the tank because you had said you were going to put the holding peacock into the maternity tank. She can be holding a huge number of fry and you will not be able to keep them all. You aren't going to see any potential in a month or two of growth with Aulonocara. It takes much longer and with the males, the conditions for displaying true colors have to be there as well. I find it much easier to let the fry be predated on in the tank very early on than to grow them out for weeks or months and then destroy them. It might be crazy and stupid, but it's my opinion.

It's good that you would only give them to people you trust. I hope they turn out nice for you. One particular hybrid that I spent a lot of money on thinking that it was a pure Red Empress is a beautiful fish!

 

[AE86-Danny]

I suggested you let her spit in the tank because you had said you were going to put the holding peacock into the maternity tank. She can be holding a huge number of fry and you will not be able to keep them all. You aren't going to see any potential in a month or two of growth with Aulonocara. It takes much longer and with the males, the conditions for displaying true colors have to be there as well. I find it much easier to let the fry be predated on in the tank very early on than to grow them out for weeks or months and then destroy them. It might be crazy and stupid, but it's my opinion.

It's good that you would only give them to people you trust. I hope they turn out nice for you. One particular hybrid that I spent a lot of money on thinking that it was a pure Red Empress is a beautiful fish!

well i was hoping to put the aulonocara in the materinty tank long enough to spit, then i would pluck her out and stick her back in the main tank.
instead i got a breeder net. i honestly agree with you guys in 1 area only, and that is selling them as pures. they simply are not pures.
or selling them in general. the peacocks "will not get sold" they will either be given away for free to people whom i trust. or i will keep them.

im leaning more and more towards keeping them.


looking at my male. hes basically show quality. bright vibrant orange body, but at certain angles you can see a blue shimmer almost "barred" like.
his face is "electric blue" looking. hes beautiful.

looking at the female. shes got an obvious purple coloring to her face. her body shows signs of yellow and green.


i dunno, both are good looking fish, and i am basically deciding to keep all of them, grow them out, and see what i got.

 

[Madness]

Wow, I missed a lot. Zerc you completely stole my thunder.

Its not Danny we are worried about, it is the others that forget to express that they are hybrid, or the LFS that forgets to reveal the true type of fish.

As for the dog and horse comment. Come on seriously? Thats answer is obvious. And again, Zerc hit the nail on the head. I do not want to have to paper my true bloods and have this ridiculous paper follow the lineage. Spending $300 for a pure bred is stupid, and it will force hobbyists to by the mutts or non-papered species, and before you know it all of them look alike.

I dont want that, and true hobbyist dont want that either.

 

[Zerc]

i have to admit though, an electric blue arowana would be pretty sweet.

 

[Madness]

True, but you know what your getting, they cant be just bought by your average Joe, and bred uncontrollably. If they were readily available they would be cheaper, and the pure colors of these Arrowannas would also be a complete mess. These fish are bred to achieve these colors and those that can buy them, pay enormous amounts to acquire them. I heard that a 3' Asian red Aro went for $25,000. Thats insane.

 

[AE86-Danny]

True, but you know what your getting, they cant be just bought by your average Joe, and bred uncontrollably. If they were readily available they would be cheaper, and the pure colors of these Arrowannas would also be a complete mess. These fish are bred to achieve these colors and those that can buy them, pay enormous amounts to acquire them. I heard that a 3' Asian red Aro went for $25,000. Thats insane.

There are so many different hybrid species out there its unreal.


people specifically breed hybrids just to discover unique species.
all electric blues, 99% of albino's are specifically bred to be that way.
atleast 50-60% of the species today were hybrid breeds that have been re-breed and sold as "pure"

its just how things boil down.
there really is no argument.

 

[Zerc]

True, but you know what your getting, they cant be just bought by your average Joe, and bred uncontrollably. If they were readily available they would be cheaper, and the pure colors of these Arrowannas would also be a complete mess. These fish are bred to achieve these colors and those that can buy them, pay enormous amounts to acquire them. I heard that a 3' Asian red Aro went for $25,000. Thats insane.

There are so many different hybrid species out there its unreal.


people specifically breed hybrids just to discover unique species.
all electric blues, 99% of albino's are specifically bred to be that way.
atleast 50-60% of the species today were hybrid breeds that have been re-breed and sold as "pure"

its just how things boil down.
there really is no argument.

They are rebred until they breed true and are sold as their own species. This takes a lot of time and effort. Our problem is when they are sold as a pure of one of the parent species. No one here is arguing against the benefits of breeding fish specifically to create a new species, the difference is the people who do that are doing something that you seem to be against. The large majority of fish that do not meet the criteria they are going for? They are culled immediately.

 

[Tr182md]

The fact that there are so many different varieties of Aulonacara is not a reflection of them crossing all the time. It is a reflection of them not crossing all the time.

In Lake Malawi what you have is many different areas of the lake that are piles of rocks with sand between. Fish tend to stay in a very small area (Mbuna). Territories are small.

If all the Aulonacara crossed all the time you would eventually have one probably bland fish. It is the selection and isolation that creates the unique fish.

Some fish are show fish and are bred and cross bred. Discus, guppies etc. you end up with fish that look nothing like the wild types. Most responsible African cichlid hobbyists are trying to keep fish as close to wild as possible.

As Lake Malawi is overfished your 2 breeds of Aulonacara may be the last examples of that fish left. But not if they cross, then you just have Aulonacara mixed. No value and a detriment to the hobby.

Leaving them all in the tank actually mimics nature as well. The only reason to take them to a grow out tank is to sell them. Left in tank a few usually make it. If your tank mates are appropriate and there is enough cover many will survive. It is actually nice for a display tank to have a few babies in there.

 

[AE86-Danny]

The fact that there are so many different varieties of Aulonacara is not a reflection of them crossing all the time. It is a reflection of them not crossing all the time.

In Lake Malawi what you have is many different areas of the lake that are piles of rocks with sand between. Fish tend to stay in a very small area (Mbuna). Territories are small.

If all the Aulonacara crossed all the time you would eventually have one probably bland fish. It is the selection and isolation that creates the unique fish.

Some fish are show fish and are bred and cross bred. Discus, guppies etc. you end up with fish that look nothing like the wild types. Most responsible African cichlid hobbyists are trying to keep fish as close to wild as possible.

As Lake Malawi is overfished your 2 breeds of Aulonacara may be the last examples of that fish left. But not if they cross, then you just have Aulonacara mixed. No value and a detriment to the hobby.

Leaving them all in the tank actually mimics nature as well. The only reason to take them to a grow out tank is to sell them. Left in tank a few usually make it. If your tank mates are appropriate and there is enough cover many will survive. It is actually nice for a display tank to have a few babies in there.

No hope for babies in my 120.
With my list of fish in that tank there is little to no hope for them.
i have many many many rock formations and a nice big piece of driftwood.
there are places for them to hide sure, but not against 24 others.

 

[Tr182md]

Actually the more the better. As you know Mbuna can get distracted from picking on other fish with many other fish in the tank. It depends more on which fish. If they are all aulonocara maybe. Pseudotropheus seem to leave fry alone.

If you don't want to sell or give away it can be interesting to see what happens. You may be surprised. Because they are mouth browsers the fry are at least a little bigger and if there is an established mulm, algae layer they feed off that. It was always so fun to watch the little guys dart in and out. One advantage of real rocks over fake caves are the variety of holes and caves.

I had a 125 about 10 years ago and I never stripped. It was always amazing to see what happened. Saulosi, labidochromis, labeotropheus all produced fry and many survived.

My brother made the mistake of adding a tanganyikan to the tank after I gave it to him and now all that is in it are brichardi. They protect the young. Pretty cool but he has 100+ now. No Malawi cichlid survived the Brichardi.

Recovering addict

Only 5 tanks now. 100, 100, 55, 50, and 10.

 

[Tr182md]

One thing I just thought of is that if you do selective breeding for a trait, like shrimp people do to get cherry red or other varieties if you cross those you may get wild type which is dull brown. Not pretty.

Aulonacara species are more stable than that because the fish themselves have done the selection over thousands of years. They actually don't mix that often. Read up on lake Malawi.

What makes it so unique is that we have fish who never leave a small region which allows so many varieties to coexist without contamination. The aquarium is an artificial environment because the territories are too small. Malawi has large rock piles with large sandy areas between them. This is why each species should also have a location as well to I'd which particular rock pile it comes from. As I said before if they traveled then they would eventually all end up the same.

 

[sandnuka]

WOW, tr182md, you have a wealth of information!!!! really glad you came aboard and posted on a few topics!! thanks so much!

 

[AE86-Danny]

WOW, tr182md, you have a wealth of information!!!! really glad you came aboard and posted on a few topics!! thanks so much!

i agree

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