And then there was an empty 33G long tank!

C

cichlid-gal

New Member
OK...looking for input and ideas folks.  With the demise of my 72G bowfront tank (alas) I have decided to use it's stand for my 33G long tank and start a new project.  I have had this 33G long tank in the wings and have been planning to set up a planted tank with it.  If I get this done this would be my first "truly" planted tank (with lots of plants not just sporadic stuff and all low maintenance) preferably without CO2.

I have read the threads on the soil substrate tanks as well as spent some time looking at other forums (like PlantedTank) for ideas and information.  I'm still not sure which way to go on the substrate.  

Questions:
From a maintenance standpoint, how easy is it to work with the soil su  bstrate?  

I was thinking if I did this I would want to cover the soil with something else like sand.  Does that create more problems when planting...i.e. disturbing the layers, etc.?  

It's now getting down to the low 40's at night here....is that too cold for the two week soil prep outside or does it make a difference?  I read some things about outside temps so I'm a little confused.

Has anyone used Eco-complete?  Is this a good alternative to the soil method?

I have that big piece of manzanita wood that came out of the 155G tank along with some seiryu stones for landscaping basics.  I will need ALL plants as I really don't have any for the tank. I was thinking of rooting a plant like the miniature peace lily onto the wood, say right above water level and letting the roots hang down into the water.

I would like to stock some fish in the tank eventually when it is stable and ready.  I like CPD's (Danio margaritatus), blue tetras (Boehlkea fredcochui), Ryan's beautiful strawberry bettas (Betta albimarginata), and rainbow fish (Melanotaenia) so far...:lol:   I'm looking for something that is not a cichlid.  I would prefer a CARES fish as that is what I like to keep but I also like these others.  There are a couple of Melantoaenia  that are CARES species.  I just don't know anything about livebearers really and because the tank is not that big, I don't know about stocking them.

So..here's the tank...please feel free to share ideas and thoughts with me.  I would welcome them.

P1150965_zpsb0671815.jpg
 
L

Lamental Jester

New Member
Hi Cichlid-gal!  Excited to hear you're considering getting into plants!  Your 33 long should work great for it since the light source will be closer to the plants.

For soil substrate, if done properly and has settled, it would require very little maintenance and water changes (I haven't changed the water in mine for months).  For soil prepping, I just did it all indoors with a large plastic bin, you can even do all the prep work in the tank itself since it's already drained.  In terms of capping, I would recommend sand or small gravel (I used turface), the layers will get disturbed eventually no matter what you do though.  Soil tanks aren't really recommended if you think you'll be moving the plants around a lot.  Also, if you are gonna so soil, make sure your tank is heavily planted, otherwise all of those excess nutrients can make it unbalanced.

Here's the thread I did on my first dirted tank: http://www.wafishbox.com/t6679-lj-s-75-gallon-walstad-inspired-planted-tank
 
pbmax

pbmax

Active Member
Lamental Jester said:
Also, if you are gonna do soil, make sure your tank is heavily planted, otherwise all of those excess nutrients can make it unbalanced.
Click to expand...
Indeed.  But also, while a properly setup Walstad easily tolerates less frequent water changes, heavily planting from the start is CRITICAL for this.  It's also recommended to have floating plants to help process the water on top of the root feeders.

It's important to distinguish the Walstad method (miracle-gro organic choice potting mix capped with larger grain sand like pool filter sand and heavily planted with primarily root-feeders along with some floating plants to keep the water clean, an eco-system in a tank approach with minimal water changes) from other dirt tank approaches.  Dirt makes plants grow better - roots love nutrients.  But just throwing dirt in a tank doesn't make it a Walstad.

Eco complete is like Flourite in that it has some micro nutrients in it, but mostly it provides surface area for nutrient collection and to keep roots oxygenated.  You'll still have to use a substrate fertilizer of some sort (root tabs) to get good root feeder growth.  It's better than sand or gravel for plants, but doesn't have the nutrients dirt does.  That said, it's much less of a mess to add and remove plants from an eco-complete or flourite tank than it is from a dirt tank. ;) I have a walstad and a couple of eco-complete tanks and they're all beautiful, but my nicest tank has eco-complete in it. My walstad is a chaotic jungle. :spoton: 

A dirt tank is a pain to setup initially.  Eco complete is a ton easier to setup - but you have to fertilize it fairly regularly with root tabs to get above average growth.
 
B

BallardFishGuy

New Member
Oh wow that 33g long looks scrumptious! I like those dimensions! Well here is my two cents..

I have two planted tanks, one low tech DIY co2 in my Bio-Cube and the other is my 29g Metaframe High tech planted tank. I run Eco-Complete (black) in my bio-cube and Safe-T-Sorb (waiting for Roy to chime in) in my Metaframe tanks.

I'm really happy with both substates and both seem to do working for me. That being said the Eco-Complete is ready to go, no washing and no ferts needed for the substate. The Safe-T-Sorb is very cheap but needs lots of cleaning/washing before using and you will need to figure that it needs some root tabs or as I did add Osmocote Plus to it. Also with STS you may love or not love the color, just look at Roy's tanks for an idea of color, it looks natural to me but it's not for everyone. With Eco-Complete you can choice your color up front.

And you know you're at the top of my list for Strawberry betas....they are finally getting bigger. It's true what I read about them being a slow grower, no wonder the cost was high on them!
 
pbmax

pbmax

Active Member
Having done both (turface and safe-t-sorb as well as eco-complete), I'll never do another safe-t-sorb or turface tank. That stuff is awful... :x 
 
B

BallardFishGuy

New Member
pbmax said:
Having done both (turface and safe-t-sorb as well as eco-complete), I'll never do another safe-t-sorb or turface tank.  That stuff is awful... :x 
Click to expand...
Roy is the STS whisper and should chime in, he has more experience with it than anyone I know and his tanks are amazing!!! I hear you though:affraid: 
 
pbmax

pbmax

Active Member
My turface tank is very low maintenance and gorgeous, but it was a giant pain to setup and the plants don't grow as well as they do in my eco-complete tanks.  My safe-t-sorb tank did a total face plant and was nothing but a mess from the get go.  Maybe I just got a bad batch?  It was harder to clean than turface was too.

I admit, I'm a slacker and I don't use root tabs in my eco complete as I should.  I still get decent growth, however, thanks to the age of the tanks (nutrient buildup).  

One nice thing about eco complete over dirt is you don't have to worry about the PH.  Eco complete will bump the PH up slightly, which generally isn't an issue.  Dirt (non-mineralized soil, that is) like in a walstad or aquasoil will pump out so much ammonia it can cause PH crashes.  I fought this early on with my Walstad, but not before it took a bunch of fish down with it.  I didn't expect the profound negative effect on PH that dirt would have.
 
B

BallardFishGuy

New Member
Yeah I'm wondering if my sudden growth of uncontrollable Hair Algae is maybe me needing to add some ferts to my eco-complete substrate...anyway these are good things for Cichlid-gal to think about!
 
L

Lamental Jester

New Member
Yeah, that's one thing about the Walstad setup to watch out for, the ammonia build up in the beginning, that's why I soaked the soil first and let it sit for a couple weeks while mixing it around everynow and then, from what I read, doing that will release a lot of the ammonia.  What I also read is that the plants love the ammonia, so when I set it up I only did one or two water changes and let it sit for a little over a week to let the plants eat up whatever ammonia was left, then I put the fish in.  Didn't have any fish losses.
 
pbmax

pbmax

Active Member
Lamental Jester said:
Yeah, that's one thing about the Walstad setup to watch out for, the ammonia build up in the beginning, that's why I soaked the soil first and let it sit for a couple weeks while mixing it around everynow and then, from what I read, doing that will release a lot of the ammonia.  What I also read is that the plants love the ammonia, so when I set it up I only did one or two water changes and let it sit for a little over a week to let the plants eat up whatever ammonia was left, then I put the fish in.  Didn't have any fish losses.
Click to expand...
All very good points. I did that too (let it soak for weeks), but it was months after setup that it crashed on me.
 
S

sea1

New Member
I have Eco Complete over mineralized top soil (multiple cycles of wet/dry) on both of my tanks. My 10 gallon at work only has simple plants (crypts, moss, anubias) but it's the nicest tank in terms of growth that I've ever had. That said, it doesn't even start to compare to the real planted tanks that folks have. The same setup in a larger ~25 gallon tank at home isn't anything to write home about. Anyone with a 'real' planted tank would look at that tank and ask why even bother attempting a nice substrate because it definitely doesn't look like a nice planted tank.
 
A

Anthraxx

New Member
i realize this may be a bit off, but as i understand it (from what i read at least) you want to use as basic of top soil as you can. a lot of the potting/organic mixes can have all sorts of gels and other chems in them to either fertilize the plants or hold more water. also going to be hard to minerilize the soil given the current weather conditions. i know you can bake it to avoid this but o man is that a bad idea! (i know from experience) anyways GL with your plants! cant wait to see the results. always love seeing your tanks cichlid-gal. us african lovers gotta stick together :p
 
pbmax

pbmax

Active Member
There's no shame in not having a "real" planted tank. :) ADA style (aquascaped) tanks require a decent amount of time, effort, and money to setup, and the maintenance can be pretty nasty too.
 
L

Lamental Jester

New Member
Anthraxx said:
i realize this may be a bit off, but as i understand it (from what i read at least) you want to use as basic of top soil as you can. a lot of the potting/organic mixes can have all sorts of gels and other chems in them to either fertilize the plants or hold more water.
Click to expand...
That's the purpose of using organic soils, usually they don't have those gels and stuff.  I just used the stuff recommended by Diana Walstad

pbmax said:
There's no shame in not having a "real" planted tank. :)ADA style (aquascaped) tanks require a decent amount of time, effort, and money to setup, and the maintenance can be pretty nasty too.
Click to expand...
Here here :D
 
P

Pneumostome

New Member
pbmax

pbmax

Active Member
Pneumostome said:
Do I understand that Walstad tanks just use the Miracle-Gro organic choice potting mix - without being mineralized?
Click to expand...
That's correct - the stuff right out of the bag, soaked, with the floaty bits skimmed off, then a sand cap on top of it. You don't have to worry about ammonia from mineralized soil since most of the organics have been processed already.
 
C

cichlid-gal

New Member
All of you...thank you so much for all the input on this.  Being who I am and knowing myself...after reading everything you guys (and gals) have shared...I think the Eco-complete would be the best choice for me.  I tend to be a "reorganizer" so given some of the above comments I think that I would do better with a substrate that would allow me some options for moving plants around and rearranging things (maybe thats a woman thing).  OK...question #1 done...for me, the Eco substate.

OH...equipment.  I didn't address this.  Here's what I have available.  An Eheim 2217, a Rena XP3, Aquaclear HOB's either 110 or 70's (but I think I'd like to stay away from HOB's in this tank).  Does anyone use Lilypipes for intake/output?  Heater can be intank or inline.  Any recommendations?  Lids...I will be covering one side and leaving one side open. I know I'll have a little more evaporation but I have a slight idea for a bit of riparium going on...yeah.

So on to question #2 (#3 since I added equipment)...PLANTS.  No CO2..but I would love to have as   many types of plants as I can.  I read that one variety of plant per 4 sq inches is how I should plant (if I understood that correctly).  What do you all recommend?  Should I start out less heavily planted in case I have problems or more heavily planted.  And I understand the graduations of height and such.  Would love a link or point in the right direction for varieties recommended for beginners...i.e. best choices and then I can chose.  Or if I'm being too lazy just tell me and send me searching...:whistle:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top