Temperment comparison?

[DMD123]

The jag in a 4ft tank may be an issue if it decides the entire tank is his.

 

[JackDempsey8083]

Hehe, yeah, that would probably put a damper on the chance of any friendly neighborly behavior  : 
 
What if they were raised together, or had a semi-young Jag introduced to a semi-established tank? Are any species of geophagus territorial enough to be a possible problem?

 

[dwarfpike]

I would stay away from 'Geophagus' brasiliensis ... They act more like centrals than true Geo's, and I lost a Silver Saum to a brasiliensis that was half the size of the rivulatus.

'Geophagus' steindachneri would be your best bet if you want to mix with the JD/GT.

Most of the true geos are too passive, and the ones that aren't get large enough that a group would be tough to keep in a 4' tank.

Note: Tank size matters here, the larger the tank the more flexible the rules are.

 

[DMD123]

The Jag will need a 75g tank minimum and will likely own every gallon of that tank.

 

[JackDempsey8083]

Ok, for the sake of the argument lets put aside the Jag for now, and stick with a JD. I keep forgetting the size difference and attitude that comes into play with them : 
 
steindachneri are actually the species that I was just last researching, so Ill keep looking into that. Do the more passive species have a school mentality? Whenever I think of a typical geophagus my mind drifts to imaging a school of cories, I think because of body shape. Would a group 3-4 do well with 1 JD in a 55g-75g?
 
Some species Ive looked at:
 
steindacheri
tapajos
parnaibe
Gymnogeophagus labiatus
 
Thanks for all the help guys  

 

[DMD123]

I will sometimes play around on this site for stocking ideas: http://aqadvisor.com

Just input the proposed tank size, filters and fish and it tells you some basics. If you cant find the exact fish you can likely find a similar sized fish to fill its spot.

 

[JackDempsey8083]

Now THAT is a handy site!

Thanks for that info!   

 

[Madness]

Again I could tell you that I have both Tapajos and Winemelleri and Stiendachneri in my community with larger cichlids and it works. But my tanks are not 55, or 75. It is hard to sell it as OK with a tank that is so small.

Sorry I know that is not what you want to hear. Maybe if you got them all at a small size, maybe it would work for awhile, or longer, but again it is so hard to answer that question when it is being done in a small tank.

 

[JackDempsey8083]

Thanks for all the info guys, greatly appreciated!  
 
I guess it just comes down to what Ive been exposed to. In my world, a 55-75g tank is HUGE. But that's just because Ive never had anything bigger. So until I have an opportunity to grow up in size the idea of a 125g or larger is impossible for me to imagine, space and money wise. Itll come with time Im sure.  

 

[DMD123]

Totally understand. Its just the possibilities really open up with a larger tank. If you are willing to do a 55g, you might as well just do a 75g, same length but wider so you could then have the ability to raise at least one of the bigger cichlids you had mentioned. Keep your eyes peeled on Craigslist and many times you can find some nice larger sized tanks for pretty reasonable. Or if you wait for the Petco $1 per gallon sale you could get that 55 gallon.

 

[JackDempsey8083]

Totally understand. Its just the possibilities really open up with a larger tank. If you are willing to do a 55g, you might as well just do a 75g, same length but wider so you could then have the ability to raise at least one of the bigger cichlids you had mentioned.

 
Sounds like a good plan!
 
Definitely have the aspiration to own some larger species, so owning larger tanks will come with time Im sure. Thanks for all the great advice and pointers  

 

[Madness]

Totally understand. Its just the possibilities really open up with a larger tank. If you are willing to do a 55g, you might as well just do a 75g, same length but wider so you could then have the ability to raise at least one of the bigger cichlids you had mentioned.

 
Sounds like a good plan!
 
Definitely have the aspiration to own some larger species, so owning larger tanks will come with time Im sure. Thanks for all the great advice and pointers  

If you are ever down south or have an urge for a day trip, let me know I would love to show you my fish room to give you some ideas as to what I have that works and why it works, plus you can see several different cichlid species that may peek your interest.

 

[DMD123]

plus you can see several different cichlid species that may peek your interest.

Many cichlids you will never see in your typical big box pet stores! You will get all kinds of ideas!   

 

[dwarfpike]

They Gymnogeophagus would require a cool down period of 3 months or so that the JD wouldn't appreciate.

While it's possible with a mild enough JD to possibly mix them with Tapajos Orangeheads or Parnaibe, the tank size wouldn't let them get away from an even mildly pushy JD.

If I were to try it, I'd most definitely go with the Steiny's.

 

[JackDempsey8083]

If you are ever down south or have an urge for a day trip, let me know I would love to show you my fish room to give you some ideas as to what I have that works and why it works, plus you can see several different cichlid species that may peek your interest.

 
Again, sounds like a good plan! Although Im away at Job Corps now, I should be done with my training around February. As soon as Im planted somewhere, and get situated I would LOVE to take you up on that offer!    Ive seen some examples of you talking about your setup in different threads, and the idea of seeing it is mindboggling  :shock: Where do you get all your 'uncommon' stock?
 
dwarfpike, what do you mean by the "cooldown" period?
 
Does raising fish together ever soften the territorial urge at all? Example, in a 75g tank putting in a 2'' JD and two 2'' Tapajos. Would "growing up" together lessen the urge to dominate at all?

 

[DMD123]

Does raising fish together ever soften the territorial urge at all? Example, in a 75g tank putting in a 2'' JD and two 2'' Tapajos. Would "growing up" together lessen the urge to dominate at all?

Will depend much on the fish, but generally they are much more tolerant of each other when raise up as young in the same tank.

 

[Madness]

Does raising fish together ever soften the territorial urge at all? Example, in a 75g tank putting in a 2'' JD and two 2'' Tapajos. Would "growing up" together lessen the urge to dominate at all?

I personally have had great success with this. Not necessarily JD and Tapajos but with Cichlids in general.

I order most of my stock from suppliers that order in from down south.

 

[DMD123]

Going to also mention the footprint is probably the main issue. In nature many of the cichlids will defend an area of up to four feet as their own. So if you can find a longer footprint even though dealing with the same number of gallons you may have better success.

As an example a standard 75g at 4ft may present challenges when trying to raise fish together but find a rare 75 Long with dimensions of 72 x 18 x 13 and they might just get along just fine.

 

[JackDempsey8083]

I order most of my stock from suppliers that order in from down south.  

 
Does that come from breeders in-country, or are they wild caught? I would figure a mix of both, but many of the species you have Ive looked up, and most seem to be only readily accessible from the wild, due to breeding difficulty or other factors. True?
 
 
It would make sense to me that raising them together would lessen it. For sure, if you were to add any fish into a tank with an already established cichlid with its own sense of territory, that's just asking for trouble. My first tank I tried out with my first rivulatus was a 45g, but it was deep. Quickly figured out how useless that was with cichlids. Angelfish? Sure. A Terror that only used the bottom half? Not so much  : So, having a larger base but shallower than average makes perfect sense. More area the better.[/quote]

 

[dwarfpike]

dwarfpike, what do you mean by the "cooldown" period?

Gymnogeophagus aren't a tropical genus, they are found further south so their native habitats get cool in the winter times. For health reasons, most Gymno (and Australoheros) keepers give their fish a 3 month period down to the low 60's F before bringing them back up to the mid 70's F for the rest of the year. This usually triggers breeding, and many of the Gymno species tend to get bloat when not given this cool down period. It also seems to drastically affect their life spans as well (ie much shorter without the cool down).