He's DEAD, Jim! My new bichir with half-baked autopsy. [GRAPHIC]

[FishBeast]

Yesterday morning I woke up to a horrific sight. One of the new wild-caught bichir I ordered from The Wet Spot... the palmas... HAD DIED! Of course, as he had arrived alive and lasted the night in quarantine along with the Endlicheri, I have no claim on a refund or anything.

This post will chronicle my progression through the stages of grief... with the last stage being "Cut fish open and see if anything may have contributed to its passing."

1. Arrived alive on Friday with the other fish. Even ate (I think although looking back, probably not). Was a bit sluggish but I attributed that to transportation shock.


2. Yesterday morning. DEAD.

3. Yup. Dead.


4. Alas... I hardly knew ye.


5. A beaut in death as in life. Water parameters in QT tank were good. Other guy is frisky (and he even has what appear to be parasites, common in wild-caught fish).

 

[FishBeast]

So today, after going through the stages of grief, I took his corpse out of cold storage and decided to perform an autopsy before the funeral.

1. Bigger than the promised 6" from The Wet Spot. Thin... almost ropefish thin.


2. Ventral incision with box cutter.

3. Exposing the viscera. My son took photos. Lungs looked ok. Still air-filled and quite clear.

4. Quite a shrunken liver, perhaps typical of a wild-caught fish that only feeds rarely when the opportunity arises. Gall bladder distended, ready for the next meal. Stomach felt empty... I didn't check the contents.

5. Punctate hemorrhage on the stomach surface... Not sure if that means anything.
Looking back, I should have checked the gills and the mouth as well.

Anyway, my best guess is that the shock of everything that has happened in recent days for the fish was just too much - a combination of stress, poor feeding and physical trauma. After being caught from his home in an African river and shipped in unknown conditions to a holding facility or fish dealer before transport to the US, perhaps to a wholesaler in Florida, he was again bagged and shipped to The Wet Spot in Portland, after which he was shipped once more to Gig Harbor, where he took his final breath after 1 day in quarantine, in the company of another bichir caught from the River Volta.

R.I.P. little dude.

 

[DMD123]

Bichir are hardy fish but with all the trauma of multiple shipping it was likely very stressed. While you may not be eligible for a refund, you should still contact Wet Spot and let them know. The fish was very skinny and may have had internal parasites or something. Letting the vendor know allows them to look at the stock they still have and possibly treat for this or to make sure all fish are feeding.

So sorry for your loss.

 

[FishBeast]

Bichir are hardy fish but with all the trauma of multiple shipping it was likely very stressed. While you may not be eligible for a refund, you should still contact Wet Spot and let them know. The fish was very skinny and may have had internal parasites or something. Letting the vendor know allows them to look at the stock they still have and possibly treat for this or to make sure all fish are feeding.

So sorry for your loss.

Thank you, my friend. I think I'll go with your suggestion and let Wet Spot know!

 

[FishBeast]

Found someone else who did an autopsy on her bichir. Interesting how her fish had a fatty liver. I guess we all tend to overfeed our fish!

 

[DMD123]

Some things to consider...
Even though polys are tough I still baby them during acclimation. I put the new fish and the shipping water in a 5g bucket and then drip acclimate them so it is a nice gradual adjustment to the new water.

They are air breathers so you need to make sure there is enough of an air gap for them to go get a gulp of air. (probably at least an inch). I hear they can actually drown if they don't have that air access. Kind of hard to imagine since you will see them get air and be underwater for hours...

Good to see you are doing quarantine on new fish before putting them in with your establish fish. I learned the hard way years ago and lost almost all my fish, some that I had for years. With the QT, I usually do tetra Parasite guard. It has multiple parasite meds and will pretty much cover both internal and external. I do the full three treatments and follow the instructions to the letter with the water changes in between. After that lots of fresh water changes and feeding good foods to get meat on their bones.

 

[FishBeast]

Some things to consider...
Even though polys are tough I still baby them during acclimation. I put the new fish and the shipping water in a 5g bucket and then drip acclimate them so it is a nice gradual adjustment to the new water.

They are air breathers so you need to make sure there is enough of an air gap for them to go get a gulp of air. (probably at least an inch). I hear they can actually drown if they don't have that air access. Kind of hard to imagine since you will see them get air and be underwater for hours...

Good to see you are doing quarantine on new fish before putting them in with your establish fish. I learned the hard way years ago and lost almost all my fish, some that I had for years. With the QT, I usually do tetra Parasite guard. It has multiple parasite meds and will pretty much cover both internal and external. I do the full three treatments and follow the instructions to the letter with the water changes in between. After that lots of fresh water changes and feeding good foods to get meat on their bones.

Thanks for the tip! I usually do the Rachel O'Leary "Plop and Drop" method but perhaps for shipped fish I'll do drip acclimation. I do have Tetra Parasite Guard on hand but I've been using this stuff called "Herbtana" from Microbe-Lift for the parasite treatment. The lesion seems to be healing and there aren't too many left on his face and fins anyway. The salt dip really knocked a lot of them off.

 

[Madness]

Just my two cents. Herbtana is junk, waste of money. Google percentages of ingredients, not good. Also have you ever heard of a fresh water fish living in salt? Neither have i. Fish spend their entire life trying to maintain osmotic balance, and salt throws this all out of whack. Forcing the fish to work harder to maintain this, therefore using much of its energy to do this, and no energy to fight say an infection. Also i believe Bichirs also have gills and the salt as well as high temps displace the oxygen in the water.

If I were a betting man, I'd say it showed up with issues and the salt did him in. Never, I repeat, never add salt to the aquarium. If it had parasites the best thing for it would have been an Epsom salt bath to clean out it's insides along with the parasite guard.

 

[FishBeast]

Just my two cents. Herbtana is junk, waste of money. Google percentages of ingredients, not good. Also have you ever heard of a fresh water fish living in salt? Neither have i. Fish spend their entire life trying to maintain osmotic balance, and salt throws this all out of whack. Forcing the fish to work harder to maintain this, therefore using much of its energy to do this, and no energy to fight say an infection. Also i believe Bichirs also have gills and the salt as well as high temps displace the oxygen in the water.

If I were a betting man, I'd say it showed up with issues and the salt did him in. Never, I repeat, never add salt to the aquarium. If it had parasites the best thing for it would have been an Epsom salt bath to clean out it's insides along with the parasite guard.

B-but... b-but... It has the word "Herb" in its name! It's surely PNW-organic free range good!

Hahaha I agree... it's most likely snake oil. The reason I think so, despite how good it smells (like lemongrass), is that there is no ingredient list or MSDS anywhere to be found. The aquarium equivalent of "apple cider vinegar" or "curcumin". I did start praziquantel for the endli this morning.

Now when it comes to salt, it is true that salinity will decrease oxygen solubility to a certain degree, but I believe that temperature has a higher effect. I only dipped the fish for 10 minutes in a seawater-strength (30 PPT) solution of pool salt, which is NaCl with no additives, with the aim being osmotic destruction or weakening of attached parasites and commensals... I did not add salt to the QT tank.

I do have an honest question for you... Do you think Epsom Salt (MgSO4) is better than regular salt (NaCl) for the dips/baths?

 

[Madness]

Epsom salt is a natural salt, regular salt is made and is a chemical.

 

[DMD123]

My preference for a bath/dip would be Methylene Blue. This will deal with the immediate issues of transportation related problems. This helps with any sort of ammonia burns and ability to carry oxygen in the bloodstream. It can also help with external parasites. I personally would do this before I would do salt. Then in the Qt tank the Tetra parasite guard will handle both internal and external parasites. Then watch the fish for any other symptoms and treat accordingly. I do belive salt has some use so Im not opposed to using it in some applications. But I do not put salt in the tanks or treat as a cure when a medine should be used.

 

[FishBeast]

Epsom salt is a natural salt, regular salt is made and is a chemical.

Last time I checked, magnesium sulfate and sodium chloride were both chemicals. In fact, regular salt is harvested either from the ocean or from brine pumped through natural salt deposits, so it really isn't man-made. I was kind of hoping for a logical explanation of why specifically magnesium sulfate is biologically superior to sodium chloride. I guess I can just google it... Lazy me!

 

[FishBeast]

My preference for a bath/dip would be Methylene Blue. This will deal with the immediate issues of transportation related problems. This helps with any sort of ammonia burns and ability to carry oxygen in the bloodstream. It can also help with external parasites. I personally would do this before I would do salt. Then in the Qt tank the Tetra parasite guard will handle both internal and external parasites. Then watch the fish for any other symptoms and treat accordingly. I do belive salt has some use so Im not opposed to using it in some applications. But I do not put salt in the tanks or treat as a cure when a medine should be used.

Nice protocol! I'll try methylene blue next time... I know it is a peroxide generator and perhaps that is why it is effective. Thank you again!

 

[DMD123]

Nice protocol! I'll try methylene blue next time... I know it is a peroxide generator and perhaps that is why it is effective. Thank you again!

Just a HUGE WARNING, espically if you are married... methylene blue is a dye and if you put the fish into a bucket of this and then net it out, the splashing of this dye can ruin things like carpet or fabrics. So lay out old towels to protect furniture and carpet. The stuff works great but the bath concentration can stain. I just saved your marriage, lol.

 

[FishBeast]

Just a HUGE WARNING, espically if you are married... methylene blue is a dye and if you put the fish into a bucket of this and then net it out, the splashing of this dye can ruin things like carpet or fabrics. So lay out old towels to protect furniture and carpet. The stuff works great but the bath concentration can stain. I just saved your marriage, lol.

Hahaha! My wife expressly forbids me from fishy business beyond the garage and the laundry room ATM! That is good to know though!

 

[DMD123]

Hahaha! My wife expressly forbids me from fishy business beyond the garage and the laundry room ATM! That is good to know though!

My 300g is in the living room and I am super careful what I do in the house.

Remember that the dye really does stain. After use I disposed of it in the toilet and it had discolored the porcelain a little. I had to get the comet out and scrub at it to clean it off. So I can just imagine the damage it would do to a white bucket or even a white laundry sink.

 

[FishBeast]

My 300g is in the living room and I am super careful what I do in the house.

Remember that the dye really does stain. After use I disposed of it in the toilet and it had discolored the porcelain a little. I had to get the comet out and scrub at it to clean it off. So I can just imagine the damage it would do to a white bucket or even a white laundry sink.

Hahaha sounds like it can give the "bank moneybag ink" a run for the money!

 

[VickiK]

Oh man. I'm so sorry for your loss @FishBeast Damn.

This thread is full of GREAT info though. I'm sure your experience just helped a ton of other people....

 

[FishBeast]

Oh man. I'm so sorry for your loss @FishBeast Damn.

This thread is full of GREAT info though. I'm sure your experience just helped a ton of other people....

Thanks @VickiK... After talking with Cory, I've learned my lesson as far as online orders go. I'm going to keep the skull and probably turn it into a keychain.

 

[VickiK]

Thanks @VickiK... After talking with Cory, I've learned my lesson as far as online orders go. I'm going to keep the skull and probably turn it into a keychain.

Eww.

It is nice though that you are turning lemons into lemonade.... Skullade...or whatever.