Do you feed more than once/ day? If so, read on

[DMD123]

I have read many people having issue with foods that tend to bulk up/expand when they get wet. Some have claimed these foods have killed their fish. So this goes right along with the whole overfeed topic.

I have noticed problems when I feed Hikari Food sticks and Omega One floating pellets, that these foods expand when they get into the fishes digestive systems. My fish will look bloated and fat. I still use these foods but in very small amounts in my mix but once Im done with some of my stockpile that is it, I will not get any more. I am in the process of a 80% NLS conversion with Omega One Kelp pellets and Algae wafers for the other 20%.

 

[Anonymous]

Isent max attack super fatty? Wasent that what we are trying to learn about from the mfk article/thread? 50% protein and 18% fat seems like a food that would contribute to the "unexplainable early deaths" mentioned on the mfk thread. To me that food seems like a fish farm food. I would say, a total of 68% protein/fat will always yield high growth rate. But at what expense? It just seems those numbers are a bit contradicting to the info we learned about in the article/thread.

 

[Madness]

All the more reason to feed once/day.

 

[RD.]

You nailed it fish n vw. That food is NOT going to be healthy for any species of fish long term, I don't care what anyone says.

Forrest, you think that in what, 30 days or less you can judge what a food is doing for your fish by simply viewing the fish in your tank? You obviously need to go back & re-read the thread that Shawn originally linked to.

Fiber content is something ive always thought was missing from my fish food and have now found an awesome product with tons of fiber.

Fish aren't humans, Forrest. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=603Z7ZhVZb4

After watching your video on youtube it has become rather clear that you still don't understand some of the basic fundamentals involving feeding cichlids. The sales spiel being used to promote this food is utter nonsense. Specifically, "the latest scientific information on big fish is that they need less protein and fat, but more fiber as adults". Really? Show me this "latest science". I love to learn new stuff.

Certainly adult fish require less protein & fat (far less than the 45% protein & 18% fat that is found in this food) but they sure as hell don't require anything remotely close to 15% fiber.

And, if what this person states about protein & fat is true for adult fish (which it is) then why on earth is he selling food with 45% protein & 18% fat? Are you freaking serious? This guy is talking straight out of his butt, and I can't believe that after all of this time you would buy some BS line from some guy selling food on the interweb. His numbers read like a generic trout chow used to pump a fish up in the least amount of time humanly possible. You think that this is health food?

As far as fiber content, here's todays lesson on fiber/fibre in food designed for FISH.

The following is an excerpt from the Nutrient Requirements of Fish, written by some of the worlds leading experts on the subject of fish nutrition, and published by the National Research Council.

FIBER

Fiber refers to indigestible plant matter such as cellulose, hemicellulose, lignin, pentosans, and other complex carbohydrates found in feedstuffs. These components are indigestible unless bacterial action occurs within the digestive tract. Fish do not secrete cellulase (Lindsay and Harris, 1980; Bergot, 1981), therefore cellulose digestion does not play an important role in their nutrition.

Fiber provides physical bulk to the feed. Cellulose and hemicellulose have been used as diluents and binders in experimental fish diets. Dietary fiber improved gastric evacuation time of rainbow trout fed purified diets (Hilton et al., 1983). Buhler and Halver (1961) reported that small amounts of supplemental cellulose increased growth and the efficiency of protein utilization in laboratory diets. Most fish can tolerate up to 8 percent fiber in their diets, but higher concentrations (8 to 30 percent) depress growth (Buhler and Halver, 1961; Leary and Lovell, 1975; Edwards et al., 1977; Hilton et al., 1983; Poston, 1986). The poor performance of salmonids fed certain types of fiber may result from a combination of factors including poor digestion and faster gastric emptying rates, which in turn affect feed intake and utilization of nutrients (Davies, 1988). In natural ingredient diets that contain 3 to 5 percent fiber (derived mainly from plant ingredients), adding fiber is unlikely to have any measurable benefit. In most cases the concern is to formulate diets without excessive fiber content, which may reduce the nutrient intake and increase fecal waste production. To limit environmental pollution from aquaculture waste, an important strategy is to use highly digestible feed ingredients and limit the fiber content of the diet.


Sometimes I think that some people see what they want to see, and obviously anyone can believe what they want to believe, but it seems that in the absence of facts experts abound.


BTW - young/juvenile fish that are still in the growth stage of life should always be feed more often than adults, typically 2-3 times a day due to their higher metabolic rates. Older more mature fish in a maintenance stage of life, with slower metabolisms, can be fed once a day. One meal, broken up into two feedings (AM & PM) is fine as well. The more carnivorous the fish, the less it matters, the more herbivorous the fish, the better it is to feed twice a day. (due to digestion rates)


HTH

::EDIT:: LANGUAGE PLEASE
fish_n_vw

 

[fishman09]

Thank you RD, All has been pointed out to me already and after doing more research I'm more than likely gonna be switching to straight nls. True that my video was a bit premature and more than likely unneccessary . Will be joining the nls cult soon and will definitely be doing more reading in the future. Figure it's about time I start taking some advice lol.

 

[RD.]

It's not a cult Forrest, so you don't need to resist it like it's one. lol

People feed NLS because of the sound science behind the food, and a couple of decades worth of successful feed trials. One doesn't need to feed NLS to have nice fish, but there are some foods that IMHO should defintely be avoided. All a high fiber food is going to accomplish with most species of fish, is a LOT of nutrients being expelled before they can be absorbed by the fish. Ultimately that waste (solid & liquid) ends up in your fish tank.

 

[DMD123]

I resisted NLS for a long time thinking it was too expensive. When I sat down and figured out price per ounce, wow I had an eye opener. The hikari sinking carnivore and food sticks were almost double in cost compared to the NLS. The NLS was about a quarter more per ounce than the Omega One pellets I had been using. My comment earlier on fish bloating up when feeding certain foods was kind of a big wake up call to change food. I noticed bad effects from both the medium Omega One cichlid pellets and especially the Hikari food sticks. I never had any of the fish swell up from NLS.

 

[Betty]

One meal, broken up into two feedings (AM & PM) is fine as well. The more carnivorous the fish, the less it matters, the more herbivorous the fish, the better it is to feed twice a day. (due to digestion rates)


HTH

It helps. Thanks. I'll just keep doing it the way I've been doing it. NLS twice a day.

DMD, another thing that makes the NLS not as expensive as it might seem is that a little goes a long way. You don't need to feed as much as you do a cheaper quality food. I buy the buckets and they last for a very, very long time! I've been feeding my fish pretty much nothing but NLS since 2005.

 

[Anonymous]

I just orderd a bucket of nls from kens, its $45, but its 4lbs. Break that down to a by ounce cost. I also needed a few other things so my order was over $100. FREE SHIPPING. Thank you for the info RD. I was unaware of the fiber stuff, but even without the research, logically if your fish are pooing more then the food dosent have as much time to distribute the nutrients in it.

 

[RD.]

Cost per pound/ounce or whatever can really only be determined by the digestibility of the feed, as in the feed converstion ratio. (FCR) Basically what Betty was stating with regards to feeding some foods less than others, and getting the same or better results in growth & overall health, which in turn also equates to a better bang for your buck.

A fish can only digest & assimilate so much food in any given period of time. Ideally you do not want the input, to exceed the output. This is where not only digestibility, but the FCR (feed conversion ratio) comes into play. FCR is basically the ratio of the gain in the wet body weight of the fish to the amount of feed fed. A true FCR also includes wasted feed and mortalities.

In a properly managed system, where overfeeding doesn't take place, and mortalities are few & far between, the FCR will be low, which is ideal. Overfeeding or underfeeding will increase the FCR, which is not ideal, unless you like wasting your hard earned $$$$.

With some of today's nutrient rich diets many hobbyists tend to overfeed, human nature I suppose (my fish "looks" hungry) when in reality they are wasting food ($$$) and creating an excessive bio load (added pollution) on their system.

 

[Madness]

This is why i brought this thread over to our forum. Excellent info and discussion. Keep it up everyone, i know that we like to talk about our pets, but one thing this forum could use are great discussions, and getting input and experiences from everyone.

Thanks for dropping in RD, and great input VW and Betty.

Come on all of you other members, i know your checking the thread out, give us your comments and experiences.

Keep it coming.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks D! Lmao