Convicts?

Madness

Madness

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Those are Africans, not convicts, not to mention they are 2 different species also.

I am sure the African experts on here can tell you exactly what they are, but they are not Convicts.
 
lloyd378

lloyd378

Administrator
Staff member
Contributing Member Level III
I believe from my short time dabbling with African cichlids that they are mbuna and an electric yellow lab. Can't remember their full name. but you are correct with the genders if I remember right, the males have the colored dots on their anal fins for breeding purposes. Though Anthraxx and a couple of others will have a lot more information for you on africans.



but I can say for 100% accuracy that they are not convicts..
 
I

InfamousRedlineZ

Well-Known Member
Your female isn't a female. It's a male yellow lab for sure. The yellow lab had a thicker black band on their top fine and the other is a mbuna not sure what's the name hopes that helps
 
C

CrazedAce

New Member
Well the one referred to as a mbuna was originally blue if that says anything. He's the dominant one in the tank. My friend has a 55gal with a few different species, I'm just helping him found out what they are and increase my own knowledge, as I'm now getting into cichlids too.
 
C

CrazedAce

New Member
InfamousRedlineZ said:
Ah yes that's the name haha yes some female has egg spots.
Click to expand...
I researched this and from the understanding of about ten different sites, turning yellow means it is a male, while the females stay blue. They both get egg spots, though the male tends to get more spots and are brighter. Are you saying it is a female based on the shape of its anal fin?
 
master chi

master chi

Member
"Duke'' is definitely a Male Metriaclima Lombardoi(Kenyi).

His ''girlfriend'' is a pretty nice looking Labidochromis Caeruleus( Yellow Lab)

Both are ''mbuna'' which is the word used to describe rock dwelling fish in Lake Malawi,the lake both of the pictured fish originate.

They can breed together. In fact if the Yellow Lab is for sure a female which I would question anyways, they will most certainly breed. The problem is if the fish were to breed, the offspring would be hybrids,and would not be desirable,but instead would be unpredictable in both appearance and behaviors. Also the Kenyi have strong reputation for killing it's tankmates,and the Yellow lab just happens to be one of it's more popular victims.Mostly due to the similar yellow coloration.

The Kenyi will in most cases eventually either view the Yellow Lab as a competing male,or He will in the case that the Yellow Lab is female harass her to breed until she either spawns with him,or dies in refusal.

In my own experience keeping Kenyi. They need at the very least a 75 gallon tank,but preferably something with a 72''x18'' footprint or larger. Even with the largest of tanks,I would keep at least 7 females for a Lone male.Which is about double what would be the norm for a more peaceful mbuna species like the Yellow Lab.

I don't mean to spell all doom and gloom here,but I do know mbuna very well,and thats just about what most mbuna keepers would say anyways. There is always the possibility that it could work too,because the mbuna,and really cichlids in general have such individual personalities.

The scenario where it could work might be that they are both males,and are housed in an All Male tank where breeding isn't encouraged.
The Kenyi may very well become more docile in the absence of any female,and not even bother the Lab.
The other scenario would probably be that the Kenyi actually has enough females in the tank to spread his aggression,and the Lab if female would simply be one of the females in his large harem. Again if the Lab is male though,my bet is that he would become a target of the Kenyi aggression.

Nonetheless, the cookie cutter stocking lists of any mbuna tank would not list these 2 species together in the same tank,so be aware.

On a more upbeat,and less informative note. Both of the fish look very nice. So there's that.
 
A

Anthraxx

New Member
well dangit, im a day late and a dollar short :(. master chi hit all the points id have shot for myself. both appear Male, most yellow labs you see these days will not develop nice bars or lines like the one you have there. its typically seen in "pure" fish or in dominant males for the most part. its something highly sought after so thats another plus. i honestly would either A. get more labs and ditch the kenyi. or B. ditch both and try something else. in either case both fish appear pure genetic wise, and that lab is HOT! so you shouldnt have a huge issue rehoming him. if you do decide to give africans a shot let me know as im currently breeding labs, labeotropheus fuelleborni (OB blueberry's) Iodotropheus sperengerae (rusty cichlid) Cynotilapia Afra (white top hara) & Pseudotropheus Acei. all are breeding and im currently growing out some rusty's, acei, white top hara, & labs. also on a side note ive got a few Neolamprologus Brevis sp. minuta fry left over from my old pair as well (a rather attractive tang shell dweller) anyways GL in your choices.
 
master chi

master chi

Member
Also to note.. Egg spots on anal fins is not considered a reliable way to determine sex of mbuna. The females often have as many spots as males.

There are only 2 ways to truly determine sex. A process known as venting is the 1st.

If you were to hold the fish upside down in your hand or a net you could inspect the anal and ventral cavities. a male's cavities would be much closer in size to each other than a female's.

So basically a male's vent and anus would look like this oo
whereas a female's vent and anus would look like this oO. It can be tricky sometimes at 1st to tell. Especially if the female has never held any eggs. chances are though if she has held, it will be much easier to tell.

Of course holding is the other sure fire way to determine sex. If you see a female mbuna holding her eggs or fry in her mouth it would be a definitive indicator that the fish is female.

These rules will apply whenever you attempt to determine the sex of a monomorphic mbuna species like the Yellow Lab. Being able to just look at a profile picture of a fish and say for certain what gender it is would actually be impossible,and misleading.

The Kenyi mentioned above in the original post however, is a dimorphic species.Meaning that there are visual characteristics that differ between the 2 sexes of the particular species.

In the Kenyi's case,a completely different color in sexual mature specimens. So it would be rather easy to tell the difference just by looking at them. I have seen female kenyi take on male coloration,but only when they are holding a mouthful of fry,so even still it would be easy to see the difference.
 
C

CrazedAce

New Member
master chi said:
"Duke'' is definitely a Male Metriaclima Lombardoi(Kenyi).

His ''girlfriend'' is a pretty nice looking Labidochromis Caeruleus( Yellow Lab)

Both are ''mbuna'' which is the word used to describe rock dwelling fish in Lake Malawi,the lake both of the pictured fish originate.

They can breed together. In fact if the Yellow Lab is for sure a female which I would question anyways, they will most certainly breed. The problem is if the fish were to breed, the offspring would be hybrids,and would not be desirable,but instead would be unpredictable in both appearance and behaviors. Also the Kenyi have strong reputation for killing it's tankmates,and the Yellow lab just happens to be one of it's more popular victims.Mostly due to the similar yellow coloration.

The Kenyi will in most cases eventually either view the Yellow Lab as a competing male,or He will in the case that the Yellow Lab is female harass her to breed until she either spawns with him,or dies in refusal.

In my own experience keeping Kenyi. They need at the very least a 75 gallon tank,but preferably something with a 72''x18'' footprint or larger. Even with the largest of tanks,I would keep at least 7 females for a Lone male.Which is about double what would be the norm for a more peaceful mbuna species like the Yellow Lab.

I don't mean to spell all doom and gloom here,but I do know mbuna very well,and thats just about what most mbuna keepers would say anyways. There is always the possibility that it could work too,because the mbuna,and really cichlids in general have such individual personalities.

The scenario where it could work might be that they are both males,and are housed in an All Male tank where breeding isn't encouraged.
The Kenyi may very well become more docile in the absence of any female,and not even bother the Lab.
The other scenario would probably be that the Kenyi actually has enough females in the tank to spread his aggression,and the Lab if female would simply be one of the females in his large harem. Again if the Lab is male though,my bet is that he would become a target of the Kenyi aggression.

Nonetheless, the cookie cutter stocking lists of any mbuna tank would not list these 2 species together in the same tank,so be aware.

On a more upbeat,and less informative note. Both of the fish look very nice. So there's that.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I shall inform my friend of his fishy error with Duke's girlfriend. From what I can gather, he wants mated pairs in his tank, though I believe I will have to rear the fry. I'd prefer to keep out mix breeding for the sake of gaining interest of potential buyers of fry/juveniles.

@Anthraxx: I will let you know what my friend wants to do. I'll make him read these last couple posts so he can come to a conclusion.

Amazing answers, and thanks for the help everyone. :D

Master chi, you are very wise indeed. Lol
 
master chi

master chi

Member
Anthraxx said:
well dangit, im a day late and a dollar short :(. master chi hit all the points id have shot for myself. both appear Male, most yellow labs you see these days will not develop nice bars or lines like the one you have there. its typically seen in "pure" fish or in dominant males for the most part. its something highly sought after so thats another plus. i honestly would either A. get more labs and ditch the kenyi. or B. ditch both and try something else. in either case both fish appear pure genetic wise, and that lab is HOT! so you shouldnt have a huge issue rehoming him. if you do decide to give africans a shot let me know as im currently breeding labs, labeotropheus fuelleborni (OB blueberry's) Iodotropheus sperengerae (rusty cichlid) Cynotilapia Afra (white top hara) & Pseudotropheus Acei. all are breeding and im currently growing out some rusty's, acei, white top hara, & labs. also on a side note ive got a few Neolamprologus Brevis sp. minuta fry left over from my old pair as well (a rather attractive tang shell dweller) anyways GL in your choices.
Click to expand...
Sorry buddy!! didn't mean to steal your thunder. But I guess it means we both know our stuff in regards to these guys :study: . I also agree with you that the kenyi should probably be rehomed,and that Lab would be a nice start to a breeding group.

Anthraxx aren't your labs white belly morph? From Lion's cove right? Do you think it would be considered crossing to have a Lion's cove all yellow spawn with a white belly variety? I probably wouldn't,but others might. Yeah?
 
master chi

master chi

Member
Your Welcome CrazedAce. Make sure your friend understands that breeding pairs for Malawi cichlids,mbuna especially is NOT a good idea,and will most likely end in having one of the fish being killed. :(

If he keeps the Yellow Lab he can get a group of anywhere around 3 to 10 more,depending on what else is in the 55 gal. tank.
I have found the Yellow Lab to be peaceful enough to keep in colonies. In other words extra males will be tolerated as long as there are enough girls at the party if you know what I mean.
Of course that is only in my own personal experience with this species. others may have a different story to tell.

If he were to get some Mbuna from Anthraxx he should let him know what else is being kept in the tank,and Anthraxx will most likely only provide him with a mix that will have a high chance of success.
 
A

Anthraxx

New Member
well Chi, the white bellys can show up in fish where both parents show no signs. ive even heard of wild fish throwing babies with no black. All labs are from lions cove (or at least that was my impression) the vast majority of the labs we see actually came from a single pair brought back (well hidden in belongings :p) to germany. the one guy that managed to snag some just spread them like wild fire. theyre quite a rare find within the lake, but the color patterns made for a great aquarium fish so now we have them everywhere. all this been said i wouldnt worry about mixing labs, just gotta make sure you dont end up with any red zebra in there (quite common to find this cross from a big box pet store) pretty sure i actually have one female that is such a cross. never collected fry from her and i doubt i ever will. just figure if its not a male why ditch it. if anything she distracts him from the good ones :p
 
master chi

master chi

Member
The Yellow Labs can be found around kakusa as well.

Lab caeruleus can be found in Nkhata Bay,Undu Pt,and Lundu Is.also,but those 3 are white,or blue.

I,of course break the Red Zebra,Yellow Lab rule in my mbuna community tank.Although my Blue Male shows Zero interest in the Labs.I don't keep fry from this tank at all,not even the rusties.
In fact I haven't had a single survivor in well over a year due to my Synos,Fryeri,and Adult mbuna.
That being said I do plan on switching this all around soon.

I'm going back to keeping a Lab colony,and adding White Top Hara to the RZ,Rusty tank. Actually the Hara are already in there but they are still pretty small around 2 inches maybe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top