Advice for breeding Red Spot Severums

[DMD123]

Reaching out to all you Fish Boxers to ask what is the best way to breed my Red Spot Severums. I clearly have a male and female and they are pretty into each other and I have seen the female lay eggs on the rear tank wall and then the male ends up eating them. I believe they are very nervous with the community tank setting and that there is another male in the tank. I am thinking to move them into a 65B and try to see if they would breed.

What type of breeding structure should I try with them? A clay pot doesnt seem to be what they are looking for... maybe a tall cone?

Do I need to run higher temps? or try the higher temp with a cold water change?

Any suggestions are appreciated. Not 100% sure I am going to pursue this, just researching at this point.

Not sure if it's true but I have heard that sometime the Red Spot Sevs are infertile, so this may all be a waste of time to try anyways.

 

[sir_keith]

A few things-

(i) It seems to me that the main issue here is the male eating the eggs, not infertility. So when exactly does he eat the eggs post-spawning? And at that point, what fraction of the eggs appear fertile vs. infertile?

(ii) Often the cause of an issue like this is perceived stress, in this case, the presence of another male. So yes, I would give the pair their own tank, possibly with appropriate dithers.

(iii) Since they're breeding already, changing the decor, temperature, or anything else is not necessary.

(iv) The fecundity of many line-bred strains is reduced relative to wild-type, but unlike hybrids, it is rare to find a completely sterile individual.

 

[DMD123]

Thanks @sir_keith

Ive seen three confirmed spawning attempts all three times on the rear glass of the tank with the male immediately eating eggs after female was laying. She doesn't seem to notice that instead of making a spawn pass over the eggs, he is eating them. She still seems to like him.

The breeding male is stressed for sure because he is constantly going at the other male trying to keep it pinned in the upper corner of the tank. This stress I think also extends to the hoplo cats. I recently had a mysterious death of one and didnt think of cichlid aggression until I saw another, the male had one of its long side fins bit off and it was red and raw on the end. Nothing else in the tank could do that but one of the sevs.

With the preference of spawning on the back vertical glass should I try a breeding cone?

 

[DMD123]

Saw a recommendation to use a piece of slate. That just might be the perfect solution to run vertical

 

[sir_keith]

Saw a recommendation to use a piece of slate. That just might be the perfect solution to run vertical

I used slate when I was breeding angels; it works well.

Have you considered swapping the males? And are you sure the current partner is really a male? Lots of pseudo-spawnings between females in these fishes, and the fact that the eggs are being eaten immediately is suspicious.

 

[DMD123]

I used slate when I was breeding angels; it works well.

Have you considered swapping the males? And are you sure the current partner is really a male? Lots of pseudo-spawnings between females in these fishes, and the fact that the eggs are being eaten immediately is suspicious.

I assumed a male due to the aggressive behavior towards the other. It is really possessive towards the female and she reciprocates. I could remove the dominant fish and see what happens with the other two others.

 

[sir_keith]

I assumed a male due to the aggressive behavior towards the other. It is really possessive towards the female and she reciprocates. I could remove the dominant fish and see what happens with the other two others.

It's not unknown for females to role-play like that, but whether male or female, this fish has had three tries to make it right. If I were you I'd remove the extra male, then give the pair one more chance with a piece of slate or whatever, and if he still hasn't figured it out, I'd give the other male a chance. Sooner or later one of the partners will get fed up with all the non-productive spawnings and turn on his/her partner, and the result is unlikely to be pretty, so be vigilant.

 

[DMD123]

A bit of a turn of events last night... when checking on the fish with the blue night lights in place, I saw some aggression being shown between the males. But this time the little male was going at the bigger dominant male. I thought is was a bit weird but as I continued watching, I saw the female attacking the large male too. Apparently the female has rejected the bigger male in favor of the smaller one. So I decided to pull the big male out and he is solo in my Fluval for a bit until I get a 65B empty of goldies and move them into the 90. Then I will decide if I want to try a breeding pair in the 65B of just put the solo male in there. I really hadn't decided to raise any fish out but if it happens then I can also set up my new 40B as a growout for babies.

 

[lloyd378]

Hey, take all the time you want with the fluval… I can still venmo you the money, but I like you are getting use of it as I won’t until September …..

How big is your big male?

 

[DMD123]

The big male I would say is about 6”. I am the absolute worst at guessing sizes so it could be anywhere from 5”- 6.5”. The female is about 3/4” smaller and the other male is closer in size to the female. Im not really wanting to breed these fish but if they will produce some offspring them I will give them a shot and use up an empty tank for a bit.

 

[DMD123]

Wow, no magic between the two sevs that are left. They dont seem to click the way the other two did. The tank however is calm with just the pair. The solo male is doing well in the Fluval but I feel sorry for him so likely moving to a bigger tank soon.

 

[fishguy1978]

Slate or a clay pot will work but won’t solve snack time. As @sir_keith said you could have females roll playing.
There may actually be more spawning activity if they pair feels some need to defend space.
Pics of the three would help determine sexing too.

 

[DMD123]

Really tough getting good pictures of these guys, like to hide when they see the phone come out. The largest one (assume male) is easy to tell apart but the other two are so close in size and looks that I have to watch them for a bit to tell them apart. For sure there is one female since Ive seen eggs laid. I really wasn’t looking to raise anything out but have room to do so for a little while and it might be a fun project.

 

[sir_keith]

The best way to sex most cichlids is by the shape of the breeding tube, but for that you need to catch them in the act.

 

[DMD123]

Got the 65B ready for whatever I end up doing with these guys... At the moment my thought is to try the newly formed pair in the 65B and move the solo (believed male) sev back into the 90 and keep it as a community. If the other two dont spawn then maybe they could end up in the 300 as tankmates to the giant gourami?

 

[lloyd378]

Got the 65B ready for whatever I end up doing with these guys... At the moment my thought is to try the newly formed pair in the 65B and move the solo (believed male) sev back into the 90 and keep it as a community. If the other two dont spawn then maybe they could end up in the 300 as tankmates to the giant gourami?

Are the new foods bringing out an additional red in them?

 

[DMD123]

Are the new foods bringing out an additional red in them?

Just started on them. They seem to like the little DynariX 2mm "Super Red" a lot. Havent seen a lot of excitement on the sevs part for the Hikari parrot but I had been feeding the Omega One color previously and felt like they should be redder.

 

[lloyd378]

Just started on them. They seem to like the little DynariX 2mm "Super Red" a lot. Havent seen a lot of excitement on the sevs part for the Hikari parrot but I had been feeding the Omega One color previously and felt like they should be redder.

I honestly have felt the whole time that yours are less line-bred than the super bright ones you see sometimes. I actually like them the way you’re are as they look more natural. I will add that I probably don’t like the super bright red ones because when I bought one, it had nothing but health problems And even developed a weird body shape as it grew…. I attribute that to too much line breeding and not paying enough attention to the genetic strength of the fish.

 

[sir_keith]

I honestly have felt the whole time that yours are less line-bred than the super bright ones you see sometimes. I actually like them the way you’re are as they look more natural. I will add that I probably don’t like the super bright red ones because when I bought one, it had nothing but health problems And even developed a weird body shape as it grew…. I attribute that to too much line breeding and not paying enough attention to the genetic strength of the fish.

True enough. That seems to happen a lot with line-bred fishes. The people who breed them are often selecting for bright colors, and so they select young fishes to continue the line based on that criterion alone, when in fact many of those fishes will develop other issues as adults. The breeders never even see many of those issues, because by then those fishes are long gone.

 

[DMD123]

Ive seen some really red ones at very small sizes which are very likely highly line bred. Mine are getting big enough that if there was going to be bad defects, I would likely have seen it already.