Wild Caught species VS store bought

[Anonymous]

But to some purists.  You worry about some species becoming extinct but how about NOT BUY wild caught specimens.  So they wont be extinct in the wild. My 2 cents.

 

[dwarfpike]

But to some purists.  You worry about some species becoming extinct but how about NOT BUY wild caught specimens.  So they wont be extinct in the wild. My 2 cents.

It's usually habitat destruction or pollution that places cichlids in danger, not over collecting.

 

[Anonymous]

The habitat destruction and pollution cause by humans trying to catch them? Just pulling your chain.

 

[dwarfpike]

Heh. I actually prefer F1 or F2 usually, unless it's a species where there is a high chance of being a hybrid. For instance, I wouldn't buy a midas, red devil, convict, or trimac unless it was wild caught. That way I wouldn't have to worry.

 

[lloyd378]

Heh. I actually prefer F1 or F2 usually, unless it's a species where there is a high chance of being a hybrid. For instance, I wouldn't buy a midas, red devil, convict, or trimac unless it was wild caught. That way I wouldn't have to worry.

agreed! the fish listed above are hybridized more commonly than they are bred true... unless you get your F1 from madness! his strains are pure......

 

[Madness]

 

 

[hyp3rcrav3]

Many places become resorts and the animals that lived in those bays are rapidly exterminated by the detritus of humans and merely the outright disregard for life many people have. Overfishing is a problem in food fish that has driven them to extinction. It is rare but has happened, in the hobby trade. However, maintaining pure lines of fish, unless they are so commonly bred to be laughable (convicts), is really important.

 

[dwarfpike]

I'd argue it's really important with convicts. It's darn rare to find pure ones.

 

[hyp3rcrav3]

Dwarf, I'll accept that. I guess they look very different than the wild ones.

 

[cichlid-gal]

But to some purists.  You worry about some species becoming extinct but how about NOT BUY wild caught specimens.  So they wont be extinct in the wild. My 2 cents.

If you spend time researching at risk fish and read the IUCN site it lists the reasons for their determination of finding a species to be "at risk" and can be found under threats.  Overcollection of a species can be a reason. If a fish has been overcollected purchasing wild caught specimans would not be right.   Another area where overcollection of wildcaught species can become a problem is when the demand for the species outweighs the availability of the species in the wild.  CPD's and zebra plecos are fish that come to mind in this regard although CPD's have now been found to have reestablished themselves in the wild and to not be at risk from overcollection as demand has decreased.

But, on the flip side of that, purchasing species of wild caught fish (that are not endangered or threatened and whose populations are not struggling) gives you the best genetics in regard to your fish species.  To some countries, collecting wild caught fish provides an income to the people as they are hired to do these collections.  Working to collect fish is a better job than say working in a mine and ecologically it will can help to preserve the environment as people that are working and collecting the wild caught fish have a vested interest in maintaining the habitat that they collect the fish from.  Many countries are creating "sustainable" fish collecting projects that benefit both the people, the habitats, and the fish.

From some of my bookmarked info one article sites "Project Piaba".  It says "Project Piaba in Brazil is another project working with local people and other stakeholders to produce sustainable wild caught fish.  The sales of fish benefit the locals and the project does a lot of work in education and raising awareness of the issues involved.  It works on conservation and habitat as well as improving understanding of the socio-economics involved."

Project Piaba

I have two wild caught species in my tanks, neither of which are high demand fish nor threatened by overcollection.  I enjoy these groups and have successfully spawned one of them.  Being able to share F1 fry within the hobby rejuvenates the species by refreshing the gene pool.  My other wild caught group has not spawned for me although I still have hopes that some day I might see some fry from them.  In the end I don't think that that you have to have a blanket policy of never owning or buying wild caught fish if you can be responsible in your choices.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe in brazil but what about the rest of the world. Do you think some people in other countries care to preserve species.  Look at the black rhinos extinct the locals dont care. The mighty dollar, peso, yen, whatever currency is only on their minds, not the animals extinction. Maybe 1 country is doing the right thing in your mind its ok but what about the rest? Think about it. 
And I never thought about WC fish and I just find ppl who has bred good looking fishes. Have a good day.

 

[cichlid-gal]

Maybe in brazil but what the rest of the world. Do you think some people in other countries care to preserve species.  Look at the black rhinos extinct the locals dont care. Maybe 1 country is doing the right thing in your mind its ok but what about the rest? Think about it. 
And I never thought about WC fish and I just find ppl who has bred good looking fishes. Have a good day.

Wes...nothing personal here and it is a personal choice. You opened the door for discussion so I was simply discussing things. It's always hard to have "open" discussions about things that we take to heart. I am glad that you have a heart and care about things. I do too so no hard feelings.

 

[Anonymous]

No hard feelings here. I added some stuff from my last post.
My people (filipinos and americans) are doing it too for the mighty dollar and peso to support themselves. Its everywhere. Just saying we boycott wild caught specimens. We would help prevent some percent.
If you worried about gene pool of the fish being restricted to usa bloodlines. Well Europe is more advance in this hobby than we are. They have their bloodlines. Just have to trust them on pure bloodline of the fish. Just as you would for a LFS or fish distributer would say "WC"

 

[Will I am]

Very interesting read!

 

[cichlid-gal]

PETA says "Please don't support the tropical fish trade by purchasing fish".  Extreme?  I don't know...if you take the argument that we should boycott purchasing or owning wild fish then no...this is not extreme.  ALL fish come from WILD FISH.  Ultimately there were WILD FISH in the beginning. You could not have your F1, F2, F3 and so on fish if there were not WILD FISH. So whats a person to do?

As I said, being responsible means being educated.  Read, evaluate, hope that in the future we take heed of our mistakes and learn that enjoying a hobby doesn't mean we have to give it up..only that we have to be responsible in our choices in regard to it.  Education and awareness are key to helping the environment and our hobby as the two things really go hand in hand.

Sustainable programs as well as creating protected areas are making way for the future success and longevity of many species and habitats.  The world is learning.  We can too. Creating hybrids is not the solution. Learning how to responsibly care for what we have is.

 

[Madness]

You're comparing apples to oranges here the topic started out as a hybridizing topic, now you're saying don't catch wild fish to preserve them. My comment to that is if people were more responsible about their fish and would not deliberately hybridized them then we wouldn't have to worry about ordering wild caught fish to get something pure because all the fish would be pure. No ifs ands or buts about it.

 

[dwarfpike]

I have a funny quip about PETA, but I don't want to bring religion into this.

You're comparing apples to oranges here the topic started out as a hybridizing topic, now you're saying don't catch wild fish to preserve them. My comment to that is if people were more responsible about their fish and would not deliberately hybridized them then we wouldn't have to worry about ordering wild caught fish to get something pure because all the fish would be pure. No ifs ands or buts about it.

Good point.

 

[Anonymous]

You're comparing apples to oranges here the topic started out as a hybridizing topic, now you're saying don't catch wild fish to preserve them. My comment to that is if people were more responsible about their fish and would not deliberately hybridized them then we wouldn't have to worry about ordering wild caught fish to get something pure because all the fish would be pure. No ifs ands or buts about it.

Just to point out. I have never hybridize any of my africans.  My ob peacocks got them from other people and lfs. Obs are now in lfs. Only ob I have is ob fuelleborni.

 

[LuminousAphid]

I don't see how there is a real difference between "line breeding" and "hybridization." We are playing god in both cases.

And also, please don't try to claim that you're practicing "conservation" by not hybridizing. If you were really that concerned about conservation, you would be out working to save the natural habitats of these fish so that they can continue to survive in the wild. Continuously line breeding and back-breeding just a (relative to nature) few specimens from a single collection point is most certainly not conservation. You might be able to claim it's preservation in a certain sense, but even that is a stretch.

What you're doing is animal husbandry. You are breeding and selecting for traits that you think are "natural," and then discarding those which don't make the grade. Compared to your average home aquarium setting, there may be (and most likely is) a completely different set of pressures on a species in the wild, and breeding them without these pressures is probably progressively making the species weaker, if anything. You cannot call this conservation.

I am in a very rant-y mood today

 

[LuminousAphid]

You're comparing apples to oranges here the topic started out as a hybridizing topic, now you're saying don't catch wild fish to preserve them. My comment to that is if people were more responsible about their fish and would not deliberately hybridized them then we wouldn't have to worry about ordering wild caught fish to get something pure because all the fish would be pure. No ifs ands or buts about it.

I do have a couple if's, and's or but's about this, actually.

If we only got "pure" specimens from home-bred fishes, the genetic pool would quickly dwindle, and there would most likely be many more severely inbred and deformed fish than there already are. See the goldfish.

And, the fish might be "pure," but they wouldn't be the same as what you find in the wild. See my previous post, the part about animal husbandry and environmental pressures on a species.

But, of course, we could solve all these issues if we could be bothered to care more about saving the actual environment these fish come from, but that is too hard. It's easier to just keep them in your house and think to yourself, "I am really helping to conserve these fish!!"

But then you're only fooling yourself.

One more: and, if we could be bothered to save the natural environments of these fish, catching wild specimens wouldn't be a problem because they would be thriving in larger numbers.