Severe tail rot in betta

[Laura]

My betta is about 1 (? Ive had him about a year)... I have never seen his full tail... Just wondering if there is anything else i can do for him

He normally lives in a 5.5 with mts, and ramshorn, and assasins
Temp: 78
Ph: 7.8
Gh: 5 drops
Kh: 6 drops
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

Tried on different weeks: 100% water changes, bettafix, melafix (which i learned are both melaluca), api fungus clear, api lifeguard, aquarium salt.

He is now on day 3- in with ich-x, erythromycin, and general cure. Hes stopped eating...

In his hospital tank (bare-bottom)- with 1 fake plant for security (?prob my comfort more than his), a heater, and mini airstone... He doesnt have a filter on this tank so i do 100% water change and redose meds every 2 days

Im sure all the moving around has caused stress which doesnt help- but i didnt want to kill the snails with trying all these meds ...

My question is- is there anything else i can do? (The pic is before i put in the ich-x)

 

[Ali]

I've seen tannins (from catappa leaves) work wonders on bettas. That being said, if he's been like this for over a year it's likely the damage is permanent. Doesn't mean he can't have a great quality of life though!

 

[Laura]

@Ali thank you for the reply! Ive been using catappa- im currently out though. His 'normal' tank usually has a leaf sitting on the bottom... His last one - was no more (lol disintegrated) last week. I dont mind tannis and read its good for bettas- but i think my ramshorns liked the leaf more than the betta- they eat it (prob the slime?) nonstop. 2 of my 4 bettas have driftwood just for the tannins hoping to get 2 more pieces so each betta tank has 1- if Kevin lives.

I get the 'picking out healthy fish' to start with- but he looked sad in his cup... I remember thinking if i dont try then he would die- in a cup. Hes made it about a year- so im hoping hes had it good- better than he would have.

 

[Cory]

Hopefully he stopped eating because he had internal tapeworms passing. This will overall improve his health as it won't be stealing nutrients from him. Time will tell.

 

[BabyGirl77]

My betta is about 1 (? Ive had him about a year)... I have never seen his full tail... Just wondering if there is anything else i can do for him

He normally lives in a 5.5 with mts, and ramshorn, and assasins
Temp: 78
Ph: 7.8
Gh: 5 drops
Kh: 6 drops
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

Tried on different weeks: 100% water changes, bettafix, melafix (which i learned are both melaluca), api fungus clear, api lifeguard, aquarium salt.

He is now on day 3- in with ich-x, erythromycin, and general cure. Hes stopped eating...

In his hospital tank (bare-bottom)- with 1 fake plant for security (?prob my comfort more than his), a heater, and mini airstone... He doesnt have a filter on this tank so i do 100% water change and redose meds every 2 days

Im sure all the moving around has caused stress which doesnt help- but i didnt want to kill the snails with trying all these meds ...

My question is- is there anything else i can do? (The pic is before i put in the ich-x)

View attachment 2762

You should have some nitrates if the tank is cycled. How long has the tank been running? Did you cycle the tank? The erythromycin isn't for fin rot. Don't use ich-x when there is no ich. The use of salt, in my opinion, won't help anything, just hinder the medication from working. When you treated the tank, did you take out the carbon from the filter media? Try doing 80% to 90% water changes instead of 100% water changes, don't want to stress him out too much with the 100% water changes every other day. Keep doing the water changes, that will help heal his tail. Keep him in the smaller tank for now, as it is easier to dose the meds. Use anti-fungus only, as it should help heal his tail. The other possibility is he could be a tail biter, which happens with some male bettas, because they think that there is another betta in the tank with them when there isn't. The "fixes" are like snake oil, this is what I have heard. I actually believe it because I tried using bettafix when treating a betta and the med didn't do anything for the betta. I think that he stopped eating because of having too many meds being given to him. Reduce the amount of meds, meaning don't use so many. Use only one medication at a time. Hopefully he starts eating again. You can fast him for up to 2 weeks before anything real drastic happens.

 

[Cory]

You should have some nitrates if the tank is cycled. How long has the tank been running? Did you cycle the tank? The erythromycin isn't for fin rot. Don't use ich-x when there is no ich. The use of salt, in my opinion, won't help anything, just hinder the medication from working. When you treated the tank, did you take out the carbon from the filter media? Try doing 80% to 90% water changes instead of 100% water changes, don't want to stress him out too much with the 100% water changes every other day. Keep doing the water changes, that will help heal his tail. Keep him in the smaller tank for now, as it is easier to dose the meds. Use anti-fungus only, as it should help heal his tail. The other possibility is he could be a tail biter, which happens with some male bettas, because they think that there is another betta in the tank with them when there isn't. The "fixes" are like snake oil, this is what I have heard. I actually believe it because I tried using bettafix when treating a betta and the med didn't do anything for the betta. I think that he stopped eating because of having too many meds being given to him. Reduce the amount of meds, meaning don't use so many. Use only one medication at a time. Hopefully he starts eating again. You can fast him for up to 2 weeks before anything real drastic happens.

You can have a cycled tank without nitrates. The 200 tanks I run all run that way. Erythromycin actually is for fin rot, once you treat the fungus it is the bacterial infection left behind that is the problem. Ich X is not for the Ich in this situation it is for the anti fungal properties. "Use only one medication at a time" is too broad of a statment, that's like telling a human to only every take one of their medications at a time. Medications can be used in conjunction when properly put together. Also salt is known to treat both fungal and bacterial infections in fish, but can also be hard some some fish etc.

 

[BabyGirl77]

You can have a cycled tank without nitrates. The 200 tanks I run all run that way. Erythromycin actually is for fin rot, once you treat the fungus it is the bacterial infection left behind that is the problem. Ich X is not for the Ich in this situation it is for the anti fungal properties. "Use only one medication at a time" is too broad of a statment, that's like telling a human to only every take one of their medications at a time. Medications can be used in conjunction when properly put together. Also salt is known to treat both fungal and bacterial infections in fish, but can also be hard some some fish etc.

I disagree that you can have a tank cycled without nitrates, unless of course you have live plants, because those live plants use the nitrates for nutrients. But if there are no live plants, there needs to be some nitrates in the tank for it to be cycled. I understand that meds can be used in conjunction with each other when properly put together. Why use salt with freshwater fish? Freshwater fish do not live in saltwater. Salt can hinder treatment and do more harm than good.

 

[Cory]

I disagree that you can have a tank cycled without nitrates, unless of course you have live plants, because those live plants use the nitrates for nutrients. But if there are no live plants, there needs to be some nitrates in the tank for it to be cycled. I understand that meds can be used in conjunction with each other when properly put together. Why use salt with freshwater fish? Freshwater fish do not live in saltwater. Salt can hinder treatment and do more harm than good.

You can disagree all you want. But a tank is still cycled without nitrates. If I have 10 nitrates in my tank today and do 3 or 4 50% water changes over the course of 2 days and nitrates are 0, my tank is still cycled. Just like if I do 20% water change every day on auto water change and nitrates sit at 0. However I can feed and ammonia is still converted and water changed out the next day. You could also have anaerobic bacterial that digests nitrates as used by saltwater hobbyists in sumps. You could also use an Ozone filter to remove nitrates from water like public aquariums do. These do nothing to the beneficial bacteria that converts waste.

As for salt, why use salt for freshwater fish? The same reason we use freshwater for treating saltwater fish? One of the most effective ways to kill a pathogen is to put it in adverse conditions. We do it all the time for every other animal on the planet as well. Chemotherapy for humans, dogs etc. NaCL salt solutions are used for humans as well, we don't live in saltwater either, but it does fight off things like sinus infections. Also can be used to keep wounds clean etc. I won't say salt is good and safe for all fish, but I also don't believe we should just say salt is bad.

You always have the right to not use any method you want with your own fish, but we should all be open minded when presenting advice to others. There are many ways to do things. There is no one right way to handle any situation.

 

[BabyGirl77]

The reason why I said that Laura should have some nitrates is because I was wondering if her tank was cycled or not. I agree that a tank is still cycled when you have 0 nitrates. I had 40ppm nitrates in my 5.5 gallon tank and I did a 100% water change and the nitrates went down to 5ppm's. I never thought about the other ways not to have nitrates. I have to remember that.

We have salt in us though. Not sure if freshwater fish have salt in them or not. I have seen people who have used salt with fish, just to have the fish get worse, not better.

 

[Cory]

The reason why I said that Laura should have some nitrates is because I was wondering if her tank was cycled or not. I agree that a tank is still cycled when you have 0 nitrates. I had 40ppm nitrates in my 5.5 gallon tank and I did a 100% water change and the nitrates went down to 5ppm's. I never thought about the other ways not to have nitrates. I have to remember that.

We have salt in us though. Not sure if freshwater fish have salt in them or not. I have seen people who have used salt with fish, just to have the fish get worse, not better.

There is salt in freshwater fish as well. In fact they use electrolytes etc just as much as other animals. For instance fish have to be able to get rid of salt that is inside of say Brine Shrimp, that we feed and other saltwater ingredients we use in our aquariums. Here is an article that can help learn about that. I love to learn so I always use every chance I can to figure things out. http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/12/how-do-fish-drink.html

We have to be careful about giving advice especially when it's broad advice. I have seen people kill stuff with salt. I've also seen lots of people kill stuff with every med on the market. For instance if you had a family member who was allergic and died to penicillin. You might say don't use that it kills people! And yet it is one of the most widely used and useful antibiotics ever developed. We need to be careful about letting personal bias play into our advice. I have found the best way to avoid this is simple start your post with: "This is how I would treat that" or "If it was my fish I would try this". Then you're stating your opinion on what you would do, and not what they should or shouldn't do etc.

 

[Laura]

You should have some nitrates if the tank is cycled. How long has the tank been running? Did you cycle the tank? The erythromycin isn't for fin rot. Don't use ich-x when there is no ich. The use of salt, in my opinion, won't help anything, just hinder the medication from working. When you treated the tank, did you take out the carbon from the filter media? Try doing 80% to 90% water changes instead of 100% water changes, don't want to stress him out too much with the 100% water changes every other day. Keep doing the water changes, that will help heal his tail. Keep him in the smaller tank for now, as it is easier to dose the meds. Use anti-fungus only, as it should help heal his tail. The other possibility is he could be a tail biter, which happens with some male bettas, because they think that there is another betta in the tank with them when there isn't. The "fixes" are like snake oil, this is what I have heard. I actually believe it because I tried using bettafix when treating a betta and the med didn't do anything for the betta. I think that he stopped eating because of having too many meds being given to him. Reduce the amount of meds, meaning don't use so many. Use only one medication at a time. Hopefully he starts eating again. You can fast him for up to 2 weeks before anything real drastic happens.

@BabyGirl77 and @Cory thank you for the replies!

@BabyGirl77
I do typically only use one med at a time - a week on, then a week for observation in his regular tank... If no improvement i move on to the next treatment. This specific set of meds was recommended for new fish- (quarantine) and the erythromycin was specifically recommended for my betta- so im hitting him hard with meds this time. A combo as a last effort to save him. He may not make it- but i will be able to say i did my best... Always looking for that miracle cure though

The betta fix was ... Calming? Like adding new catappa leaves sort of. But it didnt "fix" his fins. I wouldnt call it useless because i think if he had a small wound like a scratch - i think it would actually help? Thats my guess from seeing the effects- but he is far worse off than a scratch. I tried more natural things before jumpin on the med train- thats why bettafix/melafix/aquarium salt. The big water changes too prior to meds. Prob a bad idea

I typically fast my bettas for 1 day a week... But they ALWAYS want to eat. Hes not interested even in his fav treats. I remove the uneaten food after about 20 min (giving him more time than i usually allow because hes weak). I think maybe he needs food to get his body systems back up to par

Ive never noted him to bite his own tail.

His 5.5 has been up since Nov 2014. I got him Jan 2015. I did a "fishless" cycle - but used seeded media, and the snails have been in since day 1. I think that helped speed up the cycle. I tested my water daily- until the nitrites and ammonia vanished. There was nitrate initially during the cycle- they spiked (before fish) and then- eventually gone


I have 0 nitrates because his 5.5 is heavily planted. All my tanks are cycled- all have 0 nitrates. All have live plants.I actually have to think about adding ferts soon because my nitrates are always 0... So far its just debatable in my head because my plants grow decent- no major deficiencies noted- yet

Im actually wondering if the small hospital tank is the problem... Its harder to dose meds. Meds are meant for 10g- there is about 1/2 tsp (?) in a dose.... Wonder if im over/under dosing by using a little less than 1/4 tsp for a 3gallon. Thinkin about just buying a 10g for the hosp tank- be sooo much easier. Or just using his normal 5.5- (as i accidentally tested 2 baby ramshorns and they did not die from the med combo. Snuck in on heater guard) and in the 5.5 g dose the 1/4 tsp? I dont know.

With the current hosp tank- the heat remains stable- thank goodness. But i have to do such drastic water changes because the hosp tank has no filter. Id get one- but he would have a tough time fighting the current to get to the surface... Stupid round tanks. I just have to make sure no cycle starts - no ammonia.

 

[BabyGirl77]

@BabyGirl77 and @Cory thank you for the replies!

@BabyGirl77
I do typically only use one med at a time - a week on, then a week for observation in his regular tank... If no improvement i move on to the next treatment. This specific set of meds was recommended for new fish- (quarantine) and the erythromycin was specifically recommended for my betta- so im hitting him hard with meds this time. A combo as a last effort to save him. He may not make it- but i will be able to say i did my best... Always looking for that miracle cure though

The betta fix was ... Calming? Like adding new catappa leaves sort of. But it didnt "fix" his fins. I wouldnt call it useless because i think if he had a small wound like a scratch - i think it would actually help? Thats my guess from seeing the effects- but he is far worse off than a scratch. I tried more natural things before jumpin on the med train- thats why bettafix/melafix/aquarium salt. The big water changes too prior to meds. Prob a bad idea

I typically fast my bettas for 1 day a week... But they ALWAYS want to eat. Hes not interested even in his fav treats. I remove the uneaten food after about 20 min (giving him more time than i usually allow because hes weak). I think maybe he needs food to get his body systems back up to par

Ive never noted him to bite his own tail.

His 5.5 has been up since Nov 2014. I got him Jan 2015. I did a "fishless" cycle - but used seeded media, and the snails have been in since day 1. I think that helped speed up the cycle. I tested my water daily- until the nitrites and ammonia vanished. There was nitrate initially during the cycle- they spiked (before fish) and then- eventually gone


I have 0 nitrates because his 5.5 is heavily planted. All my tanks are cycled- all have 0 nitrates. All have live plants.I actually have to think about adding ferts soon because my nitrates are always 0... So far its just debatable in my head because my plants grow decent- no major deficiencies noted- yet

Im actually wondering if the small hospital tank is the problem... Its harder to dose meds. Meds are meant for 10g- there is about 1/2 tsp (?) in a dose.... Wonder if im over/under dosing by using a little less than 1/4 tsp for a 3gallon. Thinkin about just buying a 10g for the hosp tank- be sooo much easier. Or just using his normal 5.5- (as i accidentally tested 2 baby ramshorns and they did not die from the med combo. Snuck in on heater guard) and in the 5.5 g dose the 1/4 tsp? I dont know.

With the current hosp tank- the heat remains stable- thank goodness. But i have to do such drastic water changes because the hosp tank has no filter. Id get one- but he would have a tough time fighting the current to get to the surface... Stupid round tanks. I just have to make sure no cycle starts - no ammonia.

Thank you for the reply. Makes more sense now. I hope your betta gets better soon.