Cichlid hierarchy

[DMD123]

Ok I like the hoga, but am tired of it biting on the Pearsei. The Pearsei is a sneaky girl and when it sees a pellet has fallen on the gravel, it goes after it. The hoga thinks it owns the entire middle of the tank and ends up biting at her even though it is a food item he does not like. I am afraid if I take him out the bifa will them start to act up.

Should I worry about the hoga aggression? Seems mostly food/feeding related.

 

[Madness]

I wouldnt worry just yet. He is young and dumb still.

 

[DMD123]

He thinks she is a threat. The girl can eat but she does not go after the 3mm Xtreme stuff he likes. She is a pig and goes for the floating 4.5mm NLS, Hikari food sticks and all the small floating stuff. She is a smart one and knows where to food is at and chows down. The hoga is a bit dumb still and only goes after the few sinkers. The hoga overall is not bad, just when food is in the tank, but I wish he would stop with the biting.

 

[lloyd378]

I just moved my salvini out to my 55 with the firemouth, and a few other fin nippers. my 125 is peaceful again! :hugg:

 

[DMD123]

My little firemouth is still alive and looking like its healing. Still not eating but swimming upright and no one is messing with him.

 

[lloyd378]

He must still be in the 56 if no one is messing with him? Have you tried to see if he will eat treats (like frozen bloodworms)? I know that is usually what gets my fish eating.

On a separate note, i got the bleekeri back. He apparently picked a fight with a trimac, and the trimac wasn't very kind in return. He is now recouping in my 55, but he is eating so he isn't as bad as your firemouth, though his lip looks funny as if he has a lip ring.

 

[DMD123]

Yeah, still in the 56g. I dont think he will make it in the big tank. I think the bifa has a death wish for him. It took days for the firemouth to even swim upright. So I am pretty happy its swimming around normally at this point. It took the kind of beating that most fish dont come back from.

On a similar topic, my pearsei has been acting really strange. Very submissive toward the hoga. Not even trying to sneak a bite of food. There are no visible issues with her but she is acting strange and not being her piggy like self and kind of shy and hiding a lot. :scratch:

 

[DMD123]

Well something is officially weird. My pearsei is really afraid of the hoga and also the bifa. They are not obviously chasing her or anything. She has overnight turned into a different fish. I awoke this morning to big gouges on her side. Not like any other fish got to her but maybe she spooked and got hurt on the FX5 filter intakes. She is not eating in the same way she was.... just little bites here and there, not going to the surface to feed. All the while you can tell she has her eye on the hoga. If it even swims in a little way toward her she turns to hide. What happened?

 

[Madness]

I would either pull the hoga, or pull her to heal. I'm noticing the Sam thing with my younger hoga. He needs to be knocked down a peg or two. Put the hoga in a bucket or a very small tank, keep the temp around 70, and melafix and no light. I have heard some say they use it to help mellow the fish out. He needs to be put in time out basically.

 

[DMD123]

I will try a little time out and see. Not sure if the bifa will then step up and be a jerk.

 

[DMD123]

OK I pulled the hoga out. I could not just bucket him, so he is in a net in the 56g for now. Im interested to see if the pearsei behavior changes. Also interested to see what the bifa decides to do. Measured Mr. Hoga when I caught him and he is 6", just being a jerky teenager I guess.

 

[Madness]

I would just find a rubbermaid container and put him in that. Install a sponge filter, and your good to go. No heater, no food for a while, no lights. I know this sounds a bit cruel, but it has worked numerous times for me. My male bifa is about to have it done to him.

I had a Grammode that was an issue, I did this to him and then gave him a 13" midas tank mate. The Grammode hid a lot, and after 3 weeks or so, I put the Grammode back into the main tank, he was a perfect citizen from there on.

Both my male Hoga and Bifa, may spend some time with my 13" red Devil.

 

[DMD123]

Its funny how I never really had these issues with my old midas. I think it might be that when it was young it had a breeding pair of convicts in the tank that tormented him. It was always calm with other cichlids.

I think we attribute too much human emotion to fish..... this time out thing just does not seem like a permanent solution. Will it really 'fix' this aggressive behavior? Will see.

The pearsei has not noticed the hoga is gone yet, still kind of spooked. The bifa scares it a bit right now, but I did notice a little pushing it away which means it is not letting itself be dominated by the bifa. I really miss the old pearsei, this is a totally different fish.

 

[lloyd378]

I agree that we (I) tend humanize our fish. It's hard to watch when our tanks aren't as peaceful as we like them to be. I have been known to give my fish timeouts, or allowed them to spend time with more aggressive cichlids in order to teach them a lesson.... I am guessing that I do this because it is too hard to allow my fish to live by the law of the jungle, "kill or be killed".

You mentioned that the pearsei still doesn't realize the hoga is gone. You might try adding some other fish to the tank (not to the point of overstocking but maybe to the point where you had it when I first stopped by) to snap porkey out of her shiness and to let her figure out that her place is at the top of the pyramid. adding more fish might (but could also backfire) also help in dispersing some of the aggression when you put the hoga back in .....I know that's what I have done in the past to help out my skittish fish and that is also how I run my "timeout tank", which is smaller than my show tank but also has more fish, and thus less aggression. but who knows, and good luck

 

[DMD123]

The recent changes I made (no True parrot & gold sev anymore) upset the balance that was in the tank. The number three fish was the hoga. He then found himself the alpha fish. I feel there is some stress to that position because other fish are there to challenge his position. Even though the pearsei is very peaceful in nature she would come into his territory and eat/steal food from the bottom. This was food he did not even like, but I guess it was a challenge never the less. I want a good stock in the tank but really I dont want just cichlids or even to add many more.

I did feel good that when I fed them a little while ago the pearsei at least nibbled on a pellet with the bifa nearby and she did not run even though he was watching her spit it out and taking it back in. She did not back away or even pay attention to him. So she might just come back around.

 

[lloyd378]

DMD,

If you get hard up and would like to ad a couple of fish to change the tank dynamics, I can lend you a 6 inch blackbelt (that I've been thinking about moving), and you can have (free-forever) three zonatus I have in a separate tank that are between 3 and 4 inches. None of these fish were in that video I took. But all are peaceful, and tend to school together a bit. Not sure if you are even thinking about going this route, but thought that I would offer anyways. I'd hate to see your tank in disarray, and pork chop depressed.

 

[DMD123]

Ive had a blackbelt before. Ive had a zo before too. If anything I will downsize my stock by the end of January. :affraid:

I have some hard decisions as to who to keep and what not and I want to get it figured out soon. It will just be some piece of mind for me to have my tanks on the less stocked side while I go on vacation for two weeks. I have someone staying at the house and caring for feeding once a day (small portion), but they wont do any water changes or anything like that. So it will be easier to not have full stocking during that time.

 

[DMD123]

Alright now Im worried. She is not eating. She acts as if interested and suck it in and spits it back out. This is with every food I offer. She used to eat everything. She now has been showing aggression toward the bifa, opening her mouth toward it and causing it to back down and swim away. She also is doing this weird head shake thing. Is this some sort of breeding behavior? Not sure what is going on, I remember my male midas doing that on occasion.....

Any ideas?

 

[Madness]

Parasites possibly. before she just ignores the food, soak some food in some epson salts & Metro paste, let the food absorb the med for about 30 min, then feed. Also drop some epson salt in the aquarium near her, she will grab it thinking its food. Drop a few tablespoons on her. If she can get it in her system it will help.

 

[fishman09]

Agree with madness. Soak pellets in a 3% Epsom salt solution and let her eat those up. Don't do for more than 5 days as then the laxative effect will start doing more harm than good and they wont be able to absorb the nutrients as well. Ive been using this periodically with my Beani as a precautionary measure to possible intestinal issues. 3 weeks in and i still have all 6 and they're growing like true monsters.