New to Africans

[christophercanary]

more pictures on my mfk post -- https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/new-to-africans.723312/

Bought these the other day from my local PetSmart in the 'assorted Africans' tank. They are about 1.5 - 2". They are in a 29 gallon tank just the two of them. This is my first time ever keeping africans but ive kept sa/ca cichlids for 15 years.

The yellow fish is the yellowest fish I've ever had, the Kenyi is probably the prettiest blue fish I've had as well. I'm wondering if the yellow is a yellow lab. It does not show any black in the dorsal fin though yet and it appears that its pelvic fins are white and it has a slight white undertone to its fins and also at certain angles you see tiny flecks of blue in the yellow but can only see that when looking very close.

My other guess was that they could be hybrids being in the assorted tank. I'm familiar with the commercial hybridization that occurred with the red devil and midas cichlids in the ca world and it is my understanding that this occurred with African mbuna cichlids as well. I've come to the conclusion that my yellow fish is a hybrid yellow lab of some sort.

Is it possible for my kenyi to be a hybrid also? Oh, also I've noticed the Kenyi is the aggressor in the tank, I'm thinking of adding new fish or trying to breed them but wanting these guys to get established first or at least quarantined.

Any African cichlid experts in the area Tacoma/Seattle area?

Thanks,
C.

 

[DMD123]

@christophercanary, welcome back to the forums. I remember you from a while back raising Central Americans. The site has been slow the past couple years but its still up and running. Be patient, there are a few African cichlid keepers here but it might take a day or two to get a response.

Looks like you got two really nice looking fish there!

 

[FishBeast]

Welcome back! I know for sure @sir_keith is an expert, many more here who will chime in for sure.

 

[Betty]

It's hard to say from the picture, but the blue one does look like a kenyi; not sure about the yellow one -- the body shape looks lab-like. I wouldn't trust the breeding of anything that came from an assorted tank though. Even cichlids that look pure could be hybrids and because of that, I wouldn't suggest trying to breed them unless they are for your own enjoyment.

I kept mbuna for many years and they have all been aggressive with a few exceptions. (Kenyi are much more aggressive than Labidochromis, in my experience.) You'll need a bigger tank than a 29 gallon with more room for territorial boundaries, lots of hiding places and more fish to spread that aggression. It can be very frustrating to find the right setup and mix of fish, but they should eventually establish a hierarchy and things will settle down. They are not an easy fish, but have great colors, interesting behaviors and lots of activity!

 

[sir_keith]

Welcome to the Fishbox.

It's really hard to tell from the pic you posted, but I don't think that these two fishes are the same species. If you could post some full side shots that would help.

I don't think the blue fish is a 'Kenyi,' as these tend to be more full-bodied and less elongate, like this-



Note that the blue fish is the female, and the yellow the male, which is contrary to the usual blue male/yellow female sexual dimorphism among Mbuna.

That said, there are tons Mbuna that are blue with black bars, including many in the 'elongatus' species complex. These are amongst the most aggressive Mbuna, and need to be kept in groups. I agree with @Betty: if you're going to keep these kinds of fishes you will need more space and more fishes. Good luck!

 

[sir_keith]

Don't get me started on the issue of 'hybrids,' but if you are serious about keeping these fishes, Live Fish Direct in Utah has a nice selection of Mbuna, and you won't have to worry about whether your fishes are hybrids. LFD ships directly to your door, and prices are reasonable. No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.

 

[christophercanary]

@christophercanary, welcome back to the forums. I remember you from a while back raising Central Americans. The site has been slow the past couple years but its still up and running. Be patient, there are a few African cichlid keepers here but it might take a day or two to get a response.

Looks like you got two really nice looking fish there!

Thanks yes, they are real purty

 

[christophercanary]

@christophercanary, welcome back to the forums. I remember you from a while back raising Central Americans. The site has been slow the past couple years but its still up and running. Be patient, there are a few African cichlid keepers here but it might take a day or two to get a response.

Looks like you got two really nice looking fish there!

And yeah I've kept most common sa/ca cichlids for the past 15 years, don't post much though but I'll occasionally peruse the forums depending on how much time I've dedicated to the hobby as I've moved a lot and establish new tanks and get rid of them or have them in storage.

 

[christophercanary]

Welcome back! I know for sure @sir_keith is an expert, many more here who will chime in for sure.

Thanks!

 

[christophercanary]

It's hard to say from the picture, but the blue one does look like a kenyi; not sure about the yellow one -- the body shape looks lab-like. I wouldn't trust the breeding of anything that came from an assorted tank though. Even cichlids that look pure could be hybrids and because of that, I wouldn't suggest trying to breed them unless they are for your own enjoyment.

I kept mbuna for many years and they have all been aggressive with a few exceptions. (Kenyi are much more aggressive than Labidochromis, in my experience.) You'll need a bigger tank than a 29 gallon with more room for territorial boundaries, lots of hiding places and more fish to spread that aggression. It can be very frustrating to find the right setup and mix of fish, but they should eventually establish a hierarchy and things will settle down. They are not an easy fish, but have great colors, interesting behaviors and lots of activity!

Yeah I won't get into breeding them yet as I want to get some bonified strains, wouldn't mind breeding this yellow hybrid looking one though just for my own enjoyment as it is super colorful like a salt water fish. I'm just trying to experience keeping them for the first time before I commit to expanding on their environment. I'd like to do some mbuna only tanks/communities though but found out that all of the blue and yellow ones that I like are mean so I'll have to figure that one out, my guess is a large tank will do the trick and an even and balanced population of fish.

I've been getting comments on mfk and I'll probably put the kenyi looking one in my 75 and maybe just get a few more yellow lab type to add to the 29. I also have a spare 90 gallon in storage that I can use when I commit to doing more with these guys.

 

[christophercanary]

Welcome to the Fishbox.

It's really hard to tell from the pic you posted, but I don't think that these two fishes are the same species. If you could post some full side shots that would help.

I don't think the blue fish is a 'Kenyi,' as these tend to be more full-bodied and less elongate, like this-

View attachment 5409

Note that the blue fish is the female, and the yellow the male, which is contrary to the usual blue male/yellow female sexual dimorphism among Mbuna.

That said, there are tons Mbuna that are blue with black bars, including many in the 'elongatus' species complex. These are amongst the most aggressive Mbuna, and need to be kept in groups. I agree with @Betty: if you're going to keep these kinds of fishes you will need more space and more fishes. Good luck!

Yeah I initially didn't realize how much aggression varies in these fish as well as how much space they need to manage the aggression. I thought all mbuna were similar in behavior.

 

[christophercanary]

Don't get me started on the issue of 'hybrids,' but if you are serious about keeping these fishes, Live Fish Direct in Utah has a nice selection of Mbuna, and you won't have to worry about whether your fishes are hybrids. LFD ships directly to your door, and prices are reasonable. No affiliation, just a satisfied customer.

Thanks, I'll check them out. I'm aware of the commercial hybridization that occurred with the midas and red devil cichlids and it is my understanding that the African cichlids experience the same thing. I'm more interested in experiencing and breeding the original species as I've never kept African mbuna before.

My only memory was about 15 years ago when I first got into keeping Oscars and convicts, a friend of mines brother bought an African cichlid that resembled a kenyi cichlid and it was tank boss.

 

[christophercanary]

its not letting me upload photos but go to my mfk link or visit mfk and type 'new to African cichlids' in the search bar

 

[Betty]

I don't know about keeping yellow labs in a 29. They should be okay for awhile, but they get big and should be in at least a 3 ft tank, but 4 ft is much better. I kept mine in a 75.

I tried keeping dwarf mbuna in a 29 gallon and it just didn't work long-term. I did demasoni for a bit and another time I had saulosi in there. Both were too aggressive and I moved them to bigger tanks. A 29 is a good size for growing them up, but I've found that it just isn't big enough when they mature and start showing interest in spawning.

About the 29 -- when I first started with cichlids many many years ago, I had an auratus, crabro, and greshakei in a 29!

 

[christophercanary]

Update: I have 1 blue kenyi looking fish and two yello lab lookling fish now, all purchased from the assorted African tank. In about a month I will be moving these guys to a 75 gallon that I have.

Thanks for everyones input

 

[lloyd378]

Glad to hear that they are doing well..... the only two African cichlids I have left ( keeping) are my two Frontosa. But different types but I’m not sure which ones they are....

even though they hide a lot, I love their look so I kept them even though I recently got rid of all of their tank mates

 

[master chi]

I sure wish I could have chimed on here a year ago. I'm looking to getting back into the the forum. I think I prefer this over social media platforms like Twitter or Facebook. Either way. I sure hope your Mbuna keeping was or is a good experience. I'd be glad to throw my 2 cents in on further conversation. Since this thread is a year old. I leave it at that for now. But I do have over a decade of experience keeping overva dozen different mbuna species. GL..

 

[sir_keith]

I sure wish I could have chimed on here a year ago. I'm looking to getting back into the the forum. I think I prefer this over social media platforms like Twitter or Facebook. Either way. I sure hope your Mbuna keeping was or is a good experience. I'd be glad to throw my 2 cents in on further conversation. Since this thread is a year old. I leave it at that for now. But I do have over a decade of experience keeping overva dozen different mbuna species. GL..

Welcome to the WA Fishbox! For sure we could use another African cichlid enthusiast here!

I despise Facebook and Twitter, so it's nice to have places like this for fish chat. The Ciclid Forum is another good site for cichlid enthusiasts. Some good folks on both sites.

 

[DMD123]

Hi @master chi, good to see your post. I see you are in Lakewood, me too!

 

[master chi]

Welcome to the WA Fishbox! For sure we could use another African cichlid enthusiast here!

I despise Facebook and Twitter, so it's nice to have places like this for fish chat. The Ciclid Forum is another good site for cichlid enthusiasts. Some good folks on both sites.

Oh.I'm on the cichlid forum too. Same handle there. The coronavirus has had me working a lot more than normal. My wife has been kept out of work due to shutdown so its been on me to try and make then ends meet for awhile. Still got my Mbuna in a 75 and a 125 dedicated to Venustus. I sure would like to add a species or two to the 125 but it's just too costly for now.