How soft is too soft?

jrygel

New Member
So, in the last few weeks, as i have been setting up my co2 system and testing water parameter more often than I have in a while, I noticed that my tap water is apparently coming from a different source and is A LOT softer than it was when I set up the tank over a year ago. When I was getting the tank setup a year ago, pH was usually 7.8 and hardness was 11-13 degrees. Now, pH is 7.0 and hardness is 1-2 degrees. Is this anything I need to worry about? All my fish are soft water species: angel, Bolivian ram, black neon and rummynose tetras, corps, loaches, and a pleco.

-Justin
 

Seattle_Aquarist

Well-Known Member
Hi Justin,

The Lakehaven Water District (Federal Way) used to get the majority their water from 22 wells within the water district. With the advent of the intertie covering south King County a lot of Federal Way water now comes from the Green River watershed.

During 2013, Lakehaven Utility District delivered 30% of your drinking water from local groundwater sources pumped from deep wells owned and operated by the District. The remaining 70% of your drinking water was delivered via our partnership in the Second Supply Project (SSP) that includes source water from the Green River Watershed and wells located on the North Fork of the Green River within the watershed.

With your use of CO2 it is recommended that you keep a dKH of at least 2.0 or more to avoid a PH 'crash'. In Tom Barr's talk at GSAS a few years ago he recommended a dGH of 4.0.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The Angels, Rams, and tetra's natural water paramiters are really soft. I do not know the species of loaches and plecos so I am unable to comment on them. I am not sure what a "corp" is.

My tap water is 7.0 and very soft. My tanks are planted with CO2 injection. I use crushed coral in bags to buffer PH and maintain the water at about 6.6. Without the crushed coral my PH will crash. CO2 accounts for some of this PH drop but all the decaying organic material must be a major contributing factor.

How low should you let PH go? My suggestion is to research the species of fish and try to match as close as possible to profile recommendations.
 

Bob

Well-Known Member
My rams tetras and plecos have been in tanks with roughly 6 ph with no problems. I think keeping a stable ph is more important than trying to get exactly the right ph, from my short experiences anyways.
 
With tap water like that you are the envy of aquarists everywhere. Much easier to harden water than to soften it.

You have two primary concerns:

GH: since you are doing plants and CO2, boost your GH with ferts such as the ones on http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/, or http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizer.html, or Seachem Equlibrium, etc. Tom Barr suggests always boosting by 2 dGH regardless of the tap water, but some people with hard water report success without doing so (especially in non-CO2 tanks and regular water changes to replenish). I also believe Roy when he recalls Tom Barr recommending at least 5 dGH. For most situations, it is equivalent advice.

KH: primary concern is PH crashes. With low KH, PH swings more wildly given the same tank event (dead fish, stirring up substrate, skipping too many water changes, too much fish waste from overcrowding, CO2 "experiments", and, ironically, even adding stuff in an attempt to raise the KH).

You have probably come across this info many times before, but if you work like me you ignored it because you had hard water. Time to go brush up! There is plenty of info on the net about PH, GH and KH, and it should be covered in most every book on fish keeping. One such resource: http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html, from a venerable source.

BTW, plants can use up KH hardness as they grow. KH is also called carbonate hardness, and plants can extract the carbon. Some plants, such as Vallisneria, are really good at it, and tend to do less well in soft water tanks, all other things equal. But most plants can take a tank from KH=2 to KH=0 over time. Something to be aware of if you tend to be bad at keeping up with water changes.

You can also use things like baking soda to boost KH. I've never done this, and I've seen reports that it is a pain (the tank "bounces back" and you've put your fish through a PH swing for nothing). Crushed coral or other similar substances can boost KH slowly, but I don't think using it is universal practice in planted tanks, even in the soft water locations in western WA.
That said, Cory @ Aquarium Co-Op does throws a bit of crushed coral into his display tanks to boost KH -- a preventative measure against PH swings. If I owned a store, I'd probably do the same, because display tanks are put through more bio-load stress than a typical home aquarium. If you go the crushed coral route, I'd suggest putting it in a bag in your filter and not mixing it with substrate. That way you can adjust the amount conveniently.

I tested a non-CO2 planted tank of mine recently to find KH=0 (my tap tests with a GH and KH of 2). The PH was fine, and so were the fish. It wasn't an issue because the tank was stable and lightly stocked, but I took it as a sign that I should at least keep up on water changes. When I do, KH doesn't drop to zero.

I was going to recommend looking up your city's water quality report to figure out why your water changed, but I see Roy did the dirty work already. :)
 

jrygel

New Member
Thanks all for the help! Matt, you are exactly right, I remember reading some of this info in the past and just dismissing it, but I guess I need it now! The new CO2 system is on a controller, so that should help to avoid a crash, but I think I will figure out something to buffer the water a bit.


fishNAbowl said:
The Angels, Rams, and tetra's natural water paramiters are really soft. I do not know the species of loaches and plecos so I am unable to comment on them. I am not sure what a "corp" is.
A 'corp' is apparently a new way to spell cory. ;) Specifically, I have an albino bristle nose pleco, several Schwartz's Corydoras, a couple chain loaches, and a couple zebra loaches.
 
If your low KH lets your PH drop, then your CO2 controller will reduce or stop the flow of CO2 (possibly without you noticing). That kinda defeats the purpose of the whole CO2 system, which is to provide CO2 for the plants. ;-) I've been reading up on CO2 and some plant people don't like PH controllers for this reason. They argue that you should just buffer KH adequately, then set CO2 manually. Food for thought...
 

jrygel

New Member
My tap is currently at 1 dKH and 4 dGH, and I have started buffering up to 4 dKH.

Matt, I have both the pH monitor and a drop checker for just that reason. If the KH changes significantly from what I set up the controller's pH based on, the drop checker will change from it's nice green color and I'll know that I have a changed KH - I'm actually more concerned with the error going in the other direction. I'm not counting on my water source to stay the same, I am suspecting with the low snowpack this winter that there may be some drought restrictions and Lakehaven may change back to some of the wells in the summer, in which case my KH will shoot back up to 10 dKH. This would be really bad if I didn't notice it and I was only relying on the controller, because CO2 would be way to high, since I currently have it set to pH of 6.6, which is around 30 ppm at 4 dKH, but would be 80 ppm at 10 dKH. Also, I know myself, and I am testing a lot right now, but once I get into the rhythm, I'm not going to test with every water change, and this will help catch it if the water source changes.
 
Ooh, very good point. It looks like a jump from 4->10 dKH with a stable pH would roughly double the CO2. Though, that supports the argument that a PH controller isn't risk free.

I don't envy you. I wouldn't want to test my tap's KH before every water change, but I might do it in your situation.
 

star_rider

New Member
day late and a dollar short.. watch the pH much below 6 as the beneficial bacteria can be inhibited.. also at around 6 ammonia becomes ammonium on the flip side if the pH begins to climb the reverse happens..
 
Top